Need help with my new Pinball

[who922]

I just bought the pinball machine that I wanted for a long time!! I played it so much in high school. It is a Gottlieb Sinbad. Digital scoring (since there is more than one model). I knew it had a problem of about 4 targets not scoring. When I got it back home from Albuquerque on Thursday night and put it back together, to my amazement it all worked perfectly! Everything on the whole game worked like a charm.

Now the bad.

On Friday evening when some friends were playing that all came to an end. It went back to doing what it was doing before and now it is worse. Here are the problems:

-The 3 set and 4 set of targets will not come back up; even after restart.
-The targets do not score.
-No bonus multiplier except the 2X.
-Have to turn it on and off a couple of times to get it to reset and be ready for play. (Still those two sets of targets don't come up)
-Two of the top rollover lanes don't work.

Also, how do I fix missing paint and how do I clean it up and get it shopped out after I get it working right?

This is the first pinball I have ever had even though I played them all my life.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

[luckydog]

here's pics and spec's if anyone is intrested

Internet Pinball Machine Database: Gottlieb 'Sinbad'

[drcrippen324]

ok start at basics the drop targets reset on a solanoid when the last one drops or the game restarts then a solanoid fires to reset them if it isnt doing it a game start or reset then it is a solanoid problem not a switch problem

look at the fuses check them as the 2 drop target banks will more than liley come off the same fuse along with the jets (not always the case of jets and drops lumped together ) if the fuses are ok then yuo may find its eaither a dry joint on the pop corn bord or a dead component on the popcorn bord that would be my first port of call after fuses to test for a dry joint (and i know im gonna get slated for this but it works) use a non conductive device ie isulated screwdriver handle and tap gently on the bord and retest drop targets

As for the normal touch targets not registering then on the back of them is a set of contacts like points in a car give them a clean off and se if they register if not check the wiring for loose conection or burnt out conection

looking at the spec of the machine (but not knowing the machine first hand) i would say the faults are prolly dry joints from the pop corn bord or a conector burnt
eaither way this might help

Gottlieb System 1 Driver Board Replacement

[pinball wizard]

i mainly work on williams machines,but i would say that your cpu board may not be reading the associated switches as being closed.what i recommend is going to marvin3m.com .they have some excellent troubleshooting guides you could download.i remember playing sinbad years ago.it is a fun machine to play,and i hope you get it working right.as far as shopping your machine,i would clean the playfield with novus or mill wax,and replace all the rubber rings and burnt out light bulbs.i would remove and clean all of the parts from the top of the playfield,working one section at a time to make sure everything gets put back like it was.you can get replacement parts from sources like marco specialties,the pinball resource or happ controls to name a few.

[pinball wizard]

i mainly work on williams machines,but i would say that your cpu board may not be reading the associated switches as being closed.what i recommend is going to marvin3m.com .they have some excellent troubleshooting guides you could download.i remember playing sinbad years ago.it is a fun machine to play,and i hope you get it working right.as far as shopping your machine,i would clean the playfield with novus or mill wax,and replace all the rubber rings and burnt out light bulbs.i would remove and clean all of the parts from the top of the playfield,working one section at a time to make sure everything gets put back like it was.you can get replacement parts from sources like marco specialties,the pinball resource or happ controls to name a few.

[drcrippen324]

you can say that again

[who922]

@drcrippen- Do you think it just needs a new board like the one in the link? If $70 bucks would fix my all my problems, it seems like it would be money well spent.

@wizard- I heard something about cleaning contacts, etc. Should I only clean the things on the top or do I need to clean underneath as well?

Thanks for all your help here. I'm really flying blind. I can take a computer apart and put it back together with no problem, but this is something I've never worked with.

[new in town]

Since it was working when you got it set back up then faulted again after playing for awhile, I would clean and re-seat ALL connections first. All the plugs on the PC boards and any harness plugs.

My 1993 Indy Pinn gives me fits at times and resets after 2 to 5 minutes of play on occasion. Also I loose half the lights on the back board from time to time.

Re-seating the plugs on the main board brings it back to life. And the plug for the backboard lights fixes that problem

A can of contact cleaner using pipe cleaners on the female plugs and the same cleaner and a red eraser on the male pins will do the trick cleaning these up.

While you have each disconnected, check for burnt tracks on the connections and heat damage on the connection points on the PC boards.

[drcrippen324]

new bord = last resort

has the fault gone away since cooling down or is it still there

like i said clean the contacts up on the targets switchches first then move on to the popcorn bord / driver bord if all else fails then go for the new bord but to be honist i would be tempted to trace the coil to the drop targets back to the popcorn bord and then change out the apropriate transistor as they are pence compaired to the hole bord at $70 im a tight fisted guy and also hate this throwaway society so for both those points would go down to component level fault finding and get a more rewarding feeling from it to

to answer your question of shopping out yup above and below the play feild is a proper job but as a rule of thumb in pinball and every newbie makes the mistake do not i repeate DO NOT apply any lubricant of any type grease penny oil WD40 dont belong in a pinball they are all dry running and will corse yuo no end of problems if you do try and oil it in any way after cleaning it didnt dry up with old age it just wasent there to begin with
hope this helps a little

______________________________________________________
this link is specific to trouble shooting your type of machine

PINBALL Gottlieb System 1 Pinball Repair

[new in town]

About lubing the coils!

The previous owner of my Tom Cat Pinn did this and I had to spend allot of time taking All the coils apart and cleaning them. The oil attracts Dust and Dirt which will mess them up!

[pinball wizard]

how about those people who are armed with a can of wd40 and think everything on the face of the earth needs to be lubricated?i have seen those people spray things until they are dripping wet.one of my pins had the flipper plungers greased by a previous owner.when the grease gummed up and the flippers remained in the up position when de-energized,do you think they would have cleaned the coil sleeves out?noooo they added springs to the flipper linkages to counteract it.

[Moparformances]

hate to your thread

but im sure its a worth wile question

im one of quick draw wd40 guys but i have learned and resisted...

but i have also found solenoid's that have been oiled or greased...

the question is how to clean them??? electric motor cleaner/spray??

how do u guys clean the hard to clean parts

[drcrippen324]

alot of the time to be honist just change the coil sleave for about £1.20 and take the plunger off and clean with rag if you realy desperatly want to save the coil sleve then its a take it out and clean out with rag poked down it or if its realt badly gunked up hot water but be careful not to warp the sleve and make sure its dryer than the arazona desert befor you put it back or you get shorts and rust

[new in town]

I took mine completely apart. Cleaned every part up with 409 to degrease the parts, then did a final clean with alcohol, replaced any sleeves that were worn or damaged and reassembled.

Hint. Take Pics of each part before you dissemble them.

Which way did that sleeve go in? How did the lever line up on the shaft?

I also marked each plug on the harnesses with a peel and stick label. Made it allot easier to hook all of the plugs back up.

I took over 150 Pics of my Indy Pinn when I did a Total tear down, clean & fix and reassemble. Burned up a two drum tumbler polishing up all the bits.

Spoiler

The extended warrentee from Harbor Freight does work.

[who922]

Ok, now it won't work at all. It comes on and I can make it tally games, but when I push the button to start the game it makes the game sound, but nothing happens. the ball doesn't come up the targets don't reset...nothing. I checked the fuses and they are all good. I also reseated all of the connectors. Any ideas?

I also took a couple of pictures. How do I clean the play field? When I run my finger across it I get plenty of fine dust. Also, as you can see it is missing some paint. How do I fix that? andhow do I turn that 3X light so it is straight? I know, lots of questions.

[drcrippen324]

ok 3x light is easy from the underside you can take out the bulb move the holder and just twist maybe aply gental heat to melt glue if any there but be warned it is a plastic insert so dont melt it

cleaning the playfield is a job for a real gental paint cleaner ie in the uk Tcut metalic is used alot or nouvo number 2 but run a damp rag over first to remove any dust the tcut or the novoe will put a real shine on it

now for the hard part it is eaither one of 2 things and it is unfortunatly looking more like the latter of the 2 its eaither not getting a voltage off the power suplie ie they give out umptean diffrent voltages 1 for coils 1 for electronics 1 for bulbs ect ect and it may be missing the driver / controle / popcorn bord running voltage or its a bord problem i say that with a 89% sure shot not 100% as im not there to test it for you and dont know how competant you are at testing
i bet you been playing it quite a bit especialy when your buddies came over on the friday and it may be the answer
flipper / coil controle bords are called popcorn bords because they get hot enough to cook popcorn on and they heat up and finaly pop well with old electronics like that getting that hot after hardly any use for a long time they tend to crack solder burn tracks and genraly die unfortunatly a fact of life with pinball machines so its a case of taking the bord off looking it over for obviouse burning of tracs solder joints giving up ect

i dont want to be the guy that says go out and get a new bor dand find it isnt the problem but with the problem spreading like that it is looking that way but without access to the schematics ie what takes what voltage where i cant even help talk you through testing on MSN or somthing (this has been done a few times now)

[Eddie]

Who922 Search here maybe it will help you diagnose your problem.

PINBALL: Pinball Repair Guides. Collector buys pinball, arcade, coin operated sport games, baseball pitch bat, manikin mannequin games

Use Novus 2 to clean your playfield then finish with a good carnuba wax followed by Brillianeze.

As for paint touchups you can find answers for that on the Link above as well

[Eddie]

hate to your thread

but im sure its a worth wile question

im one of quick draw wd40 guys but i have learned and resisted...

but i have also found solenoid's that have been oiled or greased...

the question is how to clean them??? electric motor cleaner/spray??

how do u guys clean the hard to clean parts

Use WD40 to clean off the grease then use windex or plain alcohol to clean off the WD40. Electric motor spray can be used to clean off the WD40 as well, as it is basically alcohol.

Remember WD40 is a Penetrant it cuts through grease and oils and it dissolves it..

WD is really not a lubricant per say. Yes it does Un-stick things such as locks etc but it is only temporary it is not a grease. ( Graphite is best for that application in case you were wondering)

Use WD to unfreeze rusted parts and to expel water from electrics and remove stickers gum etc from glass, metals or Plastics. If you use it on something as a cleaner but dont want its oily residue use something with alcohol to clean it off.

[pinball wizard]

well said.wd has it's uses and is an excellent product,if used for it's intended purpose.just don't lubricate pinball machines with it.

[mr. fixx]

Ok, Sinbad is in fact and Gottlieb system one game. These are notorious for failure. There are ALOT of things that can make this game not boot up or run. The power supply board is weak and could be the cause. There is a modern replacement for that board. Also there is a interconnect harness that connects the MPU to another board below it. This harness is also a weak point in the game. There is a modern replacement for that as well.. One of the things i would do, is to check ALL the voltages going to the MPU board to make sure the game is getting the proper power. Most electronic pinball games have a +5v that powers the MPU. If this is NOT present, the game will not run. I know that Bally early Solid State games were Notorious for losing that +5v.

This Online guide to System One repair is the BEST place to find information and repair procedures and tips for the Gottlieb System One:

PINBALL Gottlieb System 1 Pinball Repair

If the MPU is bad it can be replaced. There is the NI-WUMPF replacement board for that.
I own a System One game and I had to replace the Power Supply board and the MPU board to get mine to work reliably again.

I hope that this helps.

Fixx
______________________________________________________
Forgot to mention in my last post there, that I believe whats going on with your System one sure sounds like a loose or corroded connection of one or more of the harness's that goto the MPU board. These are card edge connectors and one of the easiest ways to clean them is with a pencil eraser. Be sure to check ALL the harness to MPU connections for corrosion, loose wires, bent pins, ect. The reason I say this is that the game did at one point work correctly but now does not. This, to me, screams bad connection. Also check to make sure all the IC's, if socketed, are properly seated. They can work themselves loose over time. Owning pinball machines over the years has taught me that a good visual inspection and connector cleaning can sometimes clear up what appears to be more larger and involved problems.

Fixx