Shill Bidding for Products on Ebay.. What a Joke!

**Kamehany** · 01-03-2005, 12:54 AM

Talk about shill bidding! I'm not talking about one I recently won but ones I've only been looking at recently. It's amazing how many "low-number-buyer" Ebay-ers there are who have put in 5 bids or more (ranked 1 through 5 on the most recent list of bidders for that product) at varying amounts on the same products and multiple auctions for the same product.

I find it very hard to believe that a novice would place so many separate bids at varying amounts on any product. It's also amusing to see that three different auctions for the same product are at the exactly the same price at certain points in time (likely a seller's private minimum or starting point) even though some of the auctions may have 2 bidders and others have 5 or 8.

If I'm wrong, please educate me! I'm definitely not an expert on Ebay.

_________________
Kamehany

**azlew** · 01-03-2005, 12:59 AM

Good points you bring up !

I am sure that there are several here that can share with you the same things that they have seen and what has been reported to Ebay and the results.

This could be an interesting thread for newbies to read and learn from.

Thanks for bringing up a subject that is dear to our hearts :wink:

**Firewire** · 01-03-2005, 01:06 AM

The key to finding Shill bidders isn't so much the number of "dumb" bids they make, but who they are bidding with.

If the same person only bids on 1 seller in repeated auctions and never wins then the flag comes up, then you look at the bids. If it is only the minumum to push the bid up to the next level then you start to wonder. Are they pushing it or just getting outbid again.

I don't get too alarmed on a zero feedback bidder making multiple bids because they are hoping to get it for the least amount. The usually don't know put your maximum in early if that's your style. And they usually don't know about sniping or sniping software to win.

It's more like fishing for them. I will bid this much. Oh, I was outbid, I will bid this much and no more. Okay, I am serious this time. I am making my max bid! Then 4 seconds left they are scratching their head wondering how someone outbid them.

Unless of course it is a shill bidder then they will bid it up to what they want to then let the auction takes it's course from there!

**luckydog** · 01-03-2005, 01:07 AM

a lot of people join ebay everyday,

i know a few who just got on to buy a machine after seeing one somewhere else.

some people just like to bid, or put in a low amount and hope they don't win.

if they do they get a bargain.

i won 2 machine that way and got real bargains :lol: :lol: :lol:

i know tulsa got one like that too!!!!

**Kamehany** · 01-03-2005, 01:26 AM

I agree that people join everyday, and you never know!

However, if they're bidding just for fun, they're not going to put in 4-5 bids above the latest bid. You'd put in one bid, at the minimum increment above the latest bid. Otherwise, it would be too much risk for them, meaning they may actually be the winner at some point.

However, a seller is very likely to do it if he has a minimum in mind and and is willing to forgo the sale.

You could argue that his profit would be eaten up by a Ebay listing costs if he's forgoing too many sales by winning his own auctions. However, a seller who is offering a commodity or multiple units/packages of the same product can always make a "2nd chance offer" (or private email offer) to the non-winners above his minimum level once he has bid the item up and finds out what they were willing to pay.

Additionally, when three products from the same seller are selling at exactly the same price even though there are 2 bidders on 1, 5 on another and 8 on another, something fishy is going on. It doesn't matter whether the high bidder is technically the same (with the same Ebay name) on each or not.

My (Conspiracy) Theory of the Day.

_________________
Kamehany

**azlew** · 01-03-2005, 01:31 AM

If I recall there have been a few shill bidders caught by a member or two here and then turned into Ebay. They might not have been 0 feedback bidders. It is so easy to build up Ebay feedback by buying 1 cent and 99 cent items that guarantee great feedback from the sellers. So the 0 feedback is not likely to be a trigger. Someone could buy 10 items on Ebay and get 10 instant great feedbacks and then turn around and be a paid shill.

It would be interesting to learn from the people here that have experienced true shill bidding and what they did to alert Ebay of it !

**Kamehany** · 01-03-2005, 02:22 AM

I agree with your 1st and 2nd paragraphs. In your third and fourth paragraphs you're talking about someone who keeps bidding once they've been outbid by someone else. That's fine. It's the guy with historical winning bids who has five in a row lined up (at the top of the bidding pyramid) on a single auction item while there are two or three other auctions going on at the same time with "other (high) bidders" which are currently at the same price. That's when my antennae go up.

The market for this/these product(s) is not that efficient!

As to your last paragraph, I partially agree. A good shill bidder will bid a product up "to what he wants" in one fell swoop. A dumb, inexperienced shill bidder does it in a series of bids which put him at the top (with many of those five bids) so that at the end of the auction his five or more bids are interspersed amongst what he thinks/hopes will be the losing bids. (Basically, I guess, it's the dumb ones I'm after as you'll never catch the smart ones).

I know, I should be on a medication for paranoia! I promise this is my last post regarding this (unless I'm questioned of course!).

Originally Posted by David R.

The key to finding Shill bidders isn't so much the number of "dumb" bids they make, but who they are bidding with.

If the same person only bids on 1 seller in repeated auctions and never wins then the flag comes up, then you look at the bids. If it is only the minimum to push the bid up to the next level then you start to wonder. Are they pushing it or just getting outbid again.

I don't get too alarmed on a zero feedback bidder making multiple bids because they are hoping to get it for the least amount. The usually don't know put your maximum in early if that's your style. And they usually don't know about sniping or sniping software to win.

It's more like fishing for them. I will bid this much. Oh, I was outbid, I will bid this much and no more. Okay, I am serious this time. I am making my max bid! Then 4 seconds left they are scratching their head wondering how someone outbid them.

Unless of course it is a shill bidder then they will bid it up to what they want to then let the auction takes it's course from there!

_________________
Kamehany

**Tulsa** · 01-03-2005, 07:44 AM

The best way to combat it would be to post the link to an actual auction you feel has a shill. We we all go and look and look it bid histories and such, then compare notes. As a collective group we've had a number of people removed from ebay. Some permenant and some for only a short while. You see, the higher the number of ebay sales the suspected vendor has the better chance they have of getting a two week suspension for shilling. :-?

**arbycoffee** · 01-03-2005, 11:07 AM

Keep in mind Ebay makes money no matter what here, so they are slow to do anything. It is the wild west on ebay.

I just snip with the most I will pay and let the chips fall.
If they got a reserve, I ask the price nicely, if they wont say I pass on it.
The seller is the one I watch, some I will buy from and others I will not.
After awhile you learn fast, we here hope to lessing that curve for you.

We wear the white hats here (ecept me, mines purple, cause I pimp myselfÂ… need a table dancer ?)

**luckybandit** · 01-03-2005, 02:43 PM

Trying to get a Betty Boop Pachislo for the mother in law as a gift. For the last 5 or 6 ebay auctions both SlotsUsa and Pachinko Palace numerous bidders driving up the prices with 0 feedbacks who have registered in the last couple of weeks. Smells funny and i hate to jump to conclusions but these 0 feedback bidders have not even once been the final high bidder. I'll keep an eye out and hope I'm wrong. Anyone looking to sell one of these just let me know!
thanks
luckybandit
luckybandit@mindspring.com

**arbycoffee** · 01-03-2005, 02:49 PM

You could pri my fingers off mine for 800.00 plus shipping, would come with 1,500 new tokens and casino tray.
arbycoffee

**Tulsa** · 01-03-2005, 03:17 PM

Not sure what you're looking to pay for one but here's a dealer to buy one direct from without the questions of an ebay auction.

http://www.pachisloshop.com/Products/0154.asp