Pachinko - can I make it into a part time business?

[Gadgetguy]

Hello all,

I have known about Pachinko machines for a while, and I always thought that importing them and reselling them could be a great idea (and potential part-time business).

A couple of weeks ago I have discovered this forum and recently I bought 2 machines to see for myself (thank you all for the advice / help related to my first two machines!!!)

Now I am ready to make some efforts to see if I can turn this into something more than just a few machines in my basement...

I have already done some research, and I have found the following hurdles
- low cost ( $10-$20) machines are difficult to find, as they are resold to China for disassembly
- easy to find machines are about $100 (in Japan) - however they are close to new
- shipping is a problem - container load is cheaper, but a container is large (where to store many many machines when they arrive? can I invest that much for the first order?)
- pachinko machines are quite unknown in North America - so why would anyone buy one (other than people on this forum) for a price which would give me a bit of a profit?

Still, most of the above hurdles can be (maybe) overcome:
- maybe I should forget about cheap machines (as they need lots of cleaning and may not always work)
- maybe one could build awareness and sell machines which cost $100 before shipping?
- maybe a half container shipping would also be possible?
- maybe by partnering up with someone, I could reduce some of the risk?

For now I am still in research phase, but for now I think this could become a profitable part time business.

What do you all think? Do you agree / disagree?

Should I move forward, or should I stay where I am now (having two machines - with maybe a third coming, in my basement, and enjoy for myself)?

Any comments / suggestions would be very welcome!

Cheers,

Miklos

[Banzaitrooper]

Open a parlour! Ill make frequent road trips with my friends!

[seaburnroker]

Sounds a great venture but a long term investment/risk. How quickly would a container full take to sell to begin seeing a profit? I would love to have a shop full to sell - in the real world as well as e bay. I reckon if more people could actually see and try these fantastic machines, they would fly off the shelves. My hat goes off to anyone selling and would wish you all the best if you do go for it.

[Sid]

well with the way the world economy is at the moment, starting up a business that relies on an unknown and expensive product isn't what i would call a smart business move.

the pachi selling game, is a market that doesnt leave much room for profit. with all the personal work you will have to do the cleaning of machines the providing of transformers (insert optimus prime joke here) the packaging system.

not to mention where you gonna store a container full of machines and have the space to work on them? unless you have such space already available you just added rent to the equation.

seems a lot of work for minimal profit and a lot of headaches..

of course if your into it as a labour of love... then go for it...

[BigBearSteve]

In a perfect world, This is a great idea
But I agree with Sid, The profit margin is nil, the cost to ship is through the roof, and as much as we would all love to see a new supplier, it is a niche market (much like slotcar racing)

[Chrisdice]

You forgot all your time involved cleaning and fixing games that come out of the container. Installing a transformer and volume controls. including balls or tokens. dealing with 25% or more of the games being damaged by UPS and Fedex , offer a warranty and replace broken games paying for shipping each way. all that trying to stay in the $200 or less price range. I don't mean to be negative because I had thoughts about the same thing. I think 1/2 the members here had thoughts about turning this hobby into a business. Very few succeeded over the long term.
I'm sure you see all the bad custom games on ebay. Some sellers have found the only way to make a decent profit is to put a picture of Elvis or Dale jr to sell a $100 for up to 10xs the value to people who don't know better.
I hope I don't sound like as A$$. but you did ask.
A while back I was able to buy games wholesale already prepped with tokens and I sold them local and a few to members here and I was able to make enough to finance the games I wanted to keep.
well thats just my opinion I'm sure other will chime in too.
What ever you decide I wish you luck. We sure do need other retalers around here.

[sharmoni]

I'll give you my two-cents regarding vintage machines. I'm sure other members (especially the ones currently selling new machines) are better qualified to address the feasiblity of importing and selling new pachinkos.

The market is flooded with pachinkos from the 70s that were sold by Sears and Pachinko Pagoda. Most of them can be bought locally on craigslist for $25 to $100 depending on the condition. Many can be found on eBay, with new ones listed on a daily basis. The shipping cost is high (around $40) so they aren't that much of a bargain on eBay—unless you find a rare one, and then you are competing with other serious collectors, which can knock the price up pretty high.

Many of the vintage pachinkos have permanent water damage from being cleaned incorrectly, so they aren't really worth much for collectors. Just cleaning ones that have good playfields and no missing parts can take many hours (30+ based on the couple I've worked on). Missing parts can be either hard to find or expensive (a replacement tray I bought for one cost nearly as much as the machine).

Because of this I'm not sure there really is much of a business buying and selling vintage pachinkos. Bill Connelly (pachinkoman.com) is doing it, but he charges a lot for his machines ($300–$500). He also does restorations for owners ($300) and sells parts from machines that are not repairable ($25–$50 a part). One owner of a pachinko repair/parts business (pachinkomedic.com) recently decided to sell the business on eBay (wanted $5000, not sure he ever got any bidders).



I think the biggest impediment to selling pachinkos, even new ones, is lack of interest from the general population, most of whom have never even heard of them. They are more likely to be attracted to newer ones since they combine elements from slot-machines and video games (you can gauge this by the balance of posts on PachiTalk discussing modern pachinkos versus those discussing vintage machines).

With vintage machines you have the additional issue of buyer ignorance about what constitutes a valuable machine. A great illustration of this is is the wildly varying prices on both craigslist and eBay. I've seen people asking hundreds of dollars for machines that have permanent water stains or completely rusted chrome. Then, other sellers will offer a pristine pachinko that they found in their garage for twenty dollars.

As far as raising awareness, you may find that pachinko simply has less appeal than the other games. It's really a lot more of a legal gambling machine than a game because the skill factor is so overwhelmed by the luck factor. Without real money being won, a slot-machine isn't nearly as compelling as, say, a first-person shooter or a platformer on an XBox or PS3 where your ability to win is dependent on your developed skills (which then give you social bragging rights). Not to mention that pachinkos take up a lot more space and can be pretty loud, even the ones with just bells.



Personally, I'm declaring my restoration projects a business for the tax write-off. An estimate based on the hours I've put into just one machine would be 300 total hours to complete the restoration, and that is probably conservative. At my normal freelance rate (for my day job) that would be over thousand dollars worth of hourly billing. Unless I found a serious collector, I doubt I could charge that much for the restored machine, even if it is a rare one from the 50s. Plus, I probably won't want to sell it after putting that much time in it.

Additional expenses for cleaning equipment should be considered as well. Berry's Tumbler for cleaning metal parts ($60), Dremel for cleaning parts that can't be tumbled ($100+ with polishing, etc. attachments), metal cleaning products (Brasso, Bullfrog Rust Remover, Sprayway Stainless Steel cleaner), plastic cleaning products (Novus, Brillianize), chrome replating kit ($60), and of course the famous Cell-Pica powered playfield cleaning brush ($200+ if you can even find one). My rough guess is that I've got about a thousand dollars invested in overhead for my "business".

As you mentioned, space is another consideration. I'm lucky to have a mostly empty living room to keep the dozen or so machines I have, and nobody sharing my house to complain about it. At least it is an indoor hobby. I recommend a good work table—I blew out my knees working on the floor restoring my first pachinko.

Also keep in mind that initial enthusiasm may fade over time. I was pretty crazy about buying machines for the first six months before the reality of limited space, time, and money brought me back to my senses. I still love them dearly, I just plan to be a lot pickier in the future about the ones I buy.

Well, that's a little more than two-cents, but anyway I hope it gives you some things to think about.

[Gadgetguy]

Thank you very much to all of you for the honest and valuable feedback.

I see there is quite a bit more of research to be done, to make sure that this will work out (and maybe it wont...)

For now I will stay with my two machines (and maybe I will get a third next week from Imatrix), but I will further research my idea before I completely throw it out (or not).

I will keep you all posted - and again: your help so far was invaluable (and I am sure I will have more questions if for nothing else then related to my own machines).

Pachinkos are lot of fun - and it would be great to share the fun with many many other people!

Miklos

[Banzaitrooper]

Sharing the fun! part time pachi-parlour do it do it!!!
That way you still enjoy the machines and others can TOOO!!!

[teqkng]

I was a dealer in the 90's when it was a profitable venture (Pachislo) However now I am making more money with the bunch of leftovers I had in storage using them as rentals and doing the occasional fund raiser or Carnival exchanging tokens for prizes. I am always looking for 1,2, or three token accepting machines to fill out my Fleet. this looks like a good season as I already have 5 bookings through november at a VERY high margin of profit vs time.

Just my 2 cents.

[arbycoffee]

I had an import busness of new and just released pachinkos.
There is a small market for them, very small tho.
The top line pachinkos sold is the $1,600 to $2,000 range.

But these were the first of there release to be seen on our soil, I had them flown in EMS

But in the long run I still lost my azz on them, but it was fun.

[Frank A]

Keep it as a hobby. I have been in the hobby for over 5 years now.I tried it as a business and it was a waste of time and effort. Even if you buy at the wholesale level it is still difficult to generate enough volume to make it worth the effort. I now have 23 Pachislos and 14 Pachinkos. The only way it has paid for me is to give them away to charities that want unusual auction prizes for their fundraisers and then claim the tax deduction as a charitable donation. Two of my oldest Pachislo machines just sold at a cancer fundraiser for $ 195.00 and $ 325.00. People like them because they are different and the lights and sounds attract bidders. It helps too if alcohol is served at the event.There is some interest from the bidders who did not win since I put my business cards near the machines. The Pachinko that I donated sold for $ 195.00 and the winner now wants to trade it in for a Pachislo since he just doesn't get the Pachinko concept. I stay at the events and demo the machines, but I would starve if I did it for a living. Hobby-Yes. Business-No.

Frank

[Gadgetguy]

Update: I may have found a relatively affordable way to ship machines from Japan (5-10 at a time).

If I were to order new (used but from 2007/2008) machines - to be sold to members here, would that be of interest?

I could order in whatever you wish, at a price you find reasonable.

So, a few questions:
- what (new) machines would people want?
- what is a reasonable price (for you)?
- would you be willing to wait a couple of months between order and item receipt (considering this would come by sea)?
- would you be willing to commit to a purchase (lets say in form of a small deposit)?

Thanks again for your advice - and please tell me if this post is for whatever reason not appropriate...

Cheers,

Miklos

[deano]

i take it you mean bring them over on the slow boat
problem with that is some one else might have the same machines for sale cheeper when yours arrive


star wars and lord of the rings pachislos will always sell eventually even in difficult times

i think there has been a few which have done this on the board and if i was you i would put it to sleep right now

bring them in for your on need only would be advice not proffit