Who can help with this?

[CuriousTinkerer]

I have been working on a little project to supply some Class II machines to a tribal government. They have some issues and do not fall under IGRA.

Unfortunately for me, Class II manufacturers refuse to sell you their machines and demand as much as 70% of the net game, just to "lease" you their machine. Rarely do you find a machine, that I require, on the used market. So, I have spoken with manufacturer/designers in Russia and the Phillippines. They will build what I need but it's a little risky to outlay that much money, when we still haven't resolved all the legal issues with the state yet.

So, I came up with the idea, I know, I know, it's probably not that original but ... I came up with the idea of using Pachislo machines as "Player Terminals", which are all connected to a Central Determination Server. For my purposes, the game of chance will be a finite deal or virtual pulltab game. The pachislo machines would be "dumb" terminals. They would simply show the results that they are instructed to show from the server.

What I want to know is, does anyone know if the original manufacturers would help with this ? If not, is there a vendor here in the US that could help make this happen? I am willing to pay, just not $200k+ before I know I won't lose it all.

I look forward to your response.

FYI- There are some other mods that would have to happen but that is the big stuff for now.

[luckydog]

Hard Rock casinos in FLorida are replacing all their class II machines, maybe check with them

http://www.floridacasinoreport.com/seminole.htm

[BigBearSteve]

Hard Rock casinos in FLorida are replacing all their class II machines, maybe check with them

http://www.floridacasinoreport.com/seminole.htm

So a class 2 slot is a video, bingo machine?

[hanabi]

It all sounds a little too technical for me,
but hopefully someone here may be able to help you...

oh and...

Welcome to PachiTalk!!

[CuriousTinkerer]

Hard Rock casinos in FLorida are replacing all their class II machines, maybe check with them

http://www.floridacasinoreport.com/seminole.htm

The machines in the Seminole Casinos are exclusively IGT, Bally and Rocket. They are all on a lease/split arrangement. However, when you are operating 5000+ machines, you can get that split way, way down.

An even bigger problem for me, is that those machines would have to be modified because they don't comply with the law in the state we are placing them in as they sit currently.

[CuriousTinkerer]

So a class 2 slot is a video, bingo machine?

That's pretty much correct. In simple terms, a "Class II" device is simply an electronic user enhancement to the game of bingo or instant bingo.

The machines do not contain a RNG. You are playing against the other players and the house takes a rake but does not participate in the game.

Instant bingo or Pulltabs are a finite deal of instant win tickets with a predetermined number of winners and losers. If someone pulls the first ticket and wins the jackpot, the house still has to sell the remianing tickets to other players.

In regular bingo you are playing for a jackpot against the other players, in instant bingo, you are doing the same thing but in a linear fashion, which is spread out over time.

[BigBearSteve]

Cool, Sounds like fun!

[CuriousTinkerer]

It all sounds a little too technical for me,
but hopefully someone here may be able to help you...

oh and...

Welcome to PachiTalk!!

At the end of the day ... it may not be doable. It's just that the machines are so damn cheap, I find it irresistable to try and figure out a way to "recycle" them for the domestic market. I know that most of the people here probably find that to be blasphemy but there are plenty of models that are not collector pieces, which would serve my purposes just fine.

The fact is, half the stuf insit the cabinet could be removed. I don't need coin mechanisms at all. If I needed the machine to track credits I would install a Futurelogic TITO printer but it never would receive or dispense cash. Also, the processor and motherboard would have to be replace or removed.

An chip which contains an RNG inside the machine, even if it is not functional, would be problmeatic.

So ... the next question is oging to be, "Why go to all this trouble?"

To commission a machine, I have to purchase a minimum of 100 at approx. $7k a piece, plus shipping. An off the shelf Class II won't work without being modified. So, evif en used I used another company's device as my template, it is still a custom job.

I can get a 40 foot container load of Pachislo's delivered to the east coast for about $25k. Even if half were in unsusable condition, ti woul dstill be a huge savings. Plus, soeone would buy all the parts I yank out of them. So, I would ralso recover some money there.

[logicprobe]

I've played some class 2 machines on the Seneca land. Wouldn't you also have to display a bingo game, in addition to the reels? My understanding was the reels (actually, I've only seen video reels) were just 'candy'... you were really playing bingo a full game at a time.
I also remember having to push 'spin' and then 'daub', as if you were marking a bingo card or something with that last push.

Seems like the only thing useful would be the cabinet, but remember pachislos are smaller than regular 'slot' machines.

[CuriousTinkerer]

I've played some class 2 machines on the Seneca land. Wouldn't you also have to display a bingo game, in addition to the reels? My understanding was the reels (actually, I've only seen video reels) were just 'candy'... you were really playing bingo a full game at a time.
I also remember having to push 'spin' and then 'daub', as if you were marking a bingo card or something with that last push.

Seems like the only thing useful would be the cabinet, but remember pachislos are smaller than regular 'slot' machines.

The ones you are refering to are somewhat like bingo in the more tradtional sense, There are balls being drawn in some fashion, whether in the virtual realm or real one, and they are applied against a virtual bingo card. The visual display is considered a "user enhancement" but has no affect on the outcome.

There are also machines which are based off of "instant bingo" or "pull-tabs". In the tradtional pull-tab game, you buy a sealed ticket, which you then tear open and see if you won anything. This is similar to the instant win tickets from the state lottery.

A pull-tab machine operates by dispensing a pull-tab while at the same time it reads the barcode on the back and displays the results for you. This has now evolved to the pull-tabs becoming completely virutal within a central server. The server is loaded with virtual pull-tabs, which are then sold on at a time to the player. In this game you have a preset number of winners and losers. The house takes a rake but is never playing gainst the player.

For my purposes the "bingo" machines, which have balls drawn and cards daubed, don't work under the law in the state for which they are destined. I need a central server pull-tab system. I realize that the Pachislo's are much smaller than traditional US slots. However, this is just a temporary solution. I just don't want to go out and risk a big chunk of money on an unknown. If I go and contract with a manufacturer, I am going to trap myself into having to give up a large percentage of the revenue for several years.

That's why I thought I would try to figure out if I could get these to work for the short term. Then I would commission the full sized daddy's from the Russians, if everything gets smoothed out with the state.

[arbycoffee]

Iowa outlawed the video slots last year thatr were in bars and come and goes.

[CuriousTinkerer]

Iowa outlawed the video slots last year thatr were in bars and come and goes.

That's what I mean. It would suck to make a huge investment in deisgning and building a machine from scratch. Especially when you have all these great machines already built and ninety percent of the way there.

They are just soooooo cheap compared to anything else.

[teqkng]

What about something similar to the Pachislo to Mame experiment that we have been bouncing around? just toss out everything you dont need in the cabinet and use what you can interfaced with a computer terminal. I am sure there are enough basic HANABI machines out there to make it worth while? you just have to re-do the glass. Or is that a bad suggestion? let me know why please.


Just my 2 pachinko balls...

Martin