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Thread: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

  1. #1
    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    I wonder if it is possible to use one of the front button to activate one of the pocket to get balls. I know it's possible to cut the wire of one pocket, and put a normally closed switch in serie with the sensor.

    I think the front loan button is connected from ground (pin 8 or 9) to switch to pin 21 of the dongle. Maybe it's possible to use the two pin and activate a relay connected in serie to one of the pocket sensor.

    I'm just not sure if there's any voltage passing throw the loan button and so on. Not sure of the wiring I must use for safety.

    Let me know if you have done anything similar.

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    The Barbarian johntofva's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    It is easier than you think. Just buy one of Daverob's dongles.
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    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    well, I don't need the credits display and the card reader option, and for 4 pachinkos, it will cost over $200 of dongles, plus shipping. I will may buy one, but looking for a solution for the other ones.

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    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    most machines need n/c buttons and the frt buttons are n/o. just add a small pushbutton in a discrete location.


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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    There's some information about the card reader interface connector, including the pinout of the dongle connector, and a circuit diagram that includes the front panel buttons on my website, so you can see where the switch is connected, and how it would need to be wired up. There are no other connections to the switch than those shown on the circuit diagram, and the circuitry is isolated from the rest of the pachinko's electronics using opto-isolators, so it should be reasonably safe to experiment with it.

    http://www.pinballdave.com/pachinko/...ardreader.html

    You will need a relay or similar, as the front panel switch is normally open (push-to-make), and you will need to connect a set of normally closed (push-to-break) switch contacts inline with one of the pocket sensors for it to trigger correctly. You'll also need a little bit more power than can be provided from the +18v connection on the dongle for the relay coil, so you'll probably need to make some changes to the 24VAC to 18VDC conversion part of the existing dongle as well.

    Also it would be a good idea to check that your machine is compatible with this kind of modification first. Usually most machines are fine with a 'cheater' switch on the start pocket, or the side payout pockets, but some machines can have strange behaviour or will go into an error condition if the fever pocket sensor is triggered when the fever door is not supposed to be open. Other machines can respond strangely if the cheater button is kept pressed for too long (as the machine thinks a ball is jammed in the sensor, or the sensor is defective). Before designing the dongles my original plan was to use the front panel buttons like you are proposing, but when I found that it wouldn't work consistently on some machines, I realised that I was going to have to come up with another method that was a bit more compatible.

    You can check to see how your machine will respond to a cheater button by briefly unplugging the pocket sensor and reconnecting it to simulate what would happen with a press of an inline switch.


    With regards to the credits display and support for the card reader option, the dongle really wouldn't be much cheaper if they were not present. It would drop about a dollar from the BOM costs, as I could use a microprocessor with less pin connections and leave out a couple of other components (which would also save a few minutes of assembly time!), but then I'd have to keep stock of both types and it's all too much effort for what would amount to a tiny difference in the price.

    The Japanese equivalent of my dongle (the Mugen CR) is a basic stripped down version (no credit display etc, just press the button to dispense balls) and retails for 4,500 Yen ($45) which is only a small saving (and is likely to end up more expensive once you've added on agents fees and shipping expenses).

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    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Davrob, I din't think you are charging to high for your dongle, they worth the price for what they do. I was about to do what birdbrain said, use an external normally closed push button, then i though, well, why not use the normally closed part of a relay with the front button.

    I was just not sure If I can use a small relay, something like a 3v or 6v dc relay, with a battery for exemple, then connect the battery to the pin of the relay coil, then the other pin of the coil to the pin 9 of the dongle, then pin 21 of the dongle back to the battery.

    I wasn't sure If I can make something fry in the pachinko electronic.

    I've tested one of the pachinko, I will use one of the payout that give 10 balls.

    Do you know the shipping cost for your dongle to Canada?

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    The Barbarian johntofva's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    I think if they where my machines that I would leave those front buttons the way the are. One never knows what the future holds. This way you will not be eliminating options.
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    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    johntofva, adding a relay would not modify the machine or the button, since the relay is connected to 2 pins on the dongle.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Quote Originally Posted by TilionMtl View Post
    I was just not sure If I can use a small relay, something like a 3v or 6v dc relay, with a battery for exemple, then connect the battery to the pin of the relay coil, then the other pin of the coil to the pin 9 of the dongle, then pin 21 of the dongle back to the battery.
    That should work fine. If you want to do without the battery, then it's possible to use a 24v relay powered from the connections on the card reader interface connector. But you need to move the resistor on the dongle to a different position, and increase the value of the capacitor.

    Do you know the shipping cost for your dongle to Canada?
    International shipping (insured/tracked) is currently £7.50 GBP for a package with up to four items. Postal prices are increasing on 7th April and it will go up to £8.00 from that date. I can ship uninsured with no tracking for less, but you would need to contact me first for a shipping quote and payment details, and any loss during shipping will be at the buyers risk.

    Also Canada has very low customs exemption rates, and commercial items greater than $20 CDN and items marked as gifts with a value above $60 CDN may be subject to taxes and duties. They are pretty strict about this and packages are often opened to check the value of the contents.

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    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    I know enough of electronic to follow a schematics and build it, but not that much. I know that we sually have to put a diode on a coil relay, to prevent damage to electronic because of the spike of current the coil will do.

    I know about customs here, that s...

    Thanks a lot for all information daverob, that's really kind of you.

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    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Forgot to say: Since there's already a diode and Capacitor connected to pin 8 and 9, If i connect an external battery throw this pin, it's not going to interfere or damage the pachinko?

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Quote Originally Posted by TilionMtl View Post
    Forgot to say: Since there's already a diode and Capacitor connected to pin 8 and 9, If i connect an external battery throw this pin, it's not going to interfere or damage the pachinko?
    That should work fine. Connect it as you described in your earlier post and you should be good to go.

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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Daverob, since the relay doesn't use power, unless the front button is pressed, can I use the same power supply (will be 5v dc) with many 5v relay, each relay connected to a different machine front button? or I need a power source different for each machine?

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    Kungishi fronzdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    I just thought I'd reiterate what TilionMtl mentioned earlier. It is just very cool of Daverob to share all his technical knowledge even when, in doing so, it sort of offers an alternative to some of the features of the fine product he sells.

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  19. #15
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Quote Originally Posted by TilionMtl View Post
    can I use the same power supply (will be 5v dc) with many 5v relay
    It should be possible, but it's not 'best practice' as you will be effectively linking together several different mains power supplies (ie the original transformers on each of the machines).

    Before you try this, use a voltmeter to measure the voltage between the 0v pins of the card reader connector on each machine (ie pins 8&9 of one machine to pins 8&9 of another machine), if you measure any voltage when the voltmeter is set to either AC or DC (check both!), then there might be a problem if you link them all up using the same 5v power supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by fronzdan View Post
    I just thought I'd reiterate what TilionMtl mentioned earlier. It is just very cool of Daverob to share all his technical knowledge even when, in doing so, it sort of offers an alternative to some of the features of the fine product he sells.
    I was offering (and receiving) technical advice on this forum before I had any 'fine products', and I have no intention of stopping now that I've got stuff to sell.

    OK, I could lose a couple of sales in the short term, but seeing this might inspire someone who would prefer a simple plug-and-play solution rather than hacking around with the payout pocket wiring.

    Marketing 101 - All publicity is good publicity (* except when it's bad)

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    Eye Shooter TilionMtl's Avatar
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    Default Re: front button to activate one of the pocket sensor??

    Thank you daverob, My vicky chance have a 10 balls payout pocket, so it's not that ball, but since the other pachinkos are in boxes because I'm moving, I can't test them, If my memory is good, some don't have a big payout pocket, then I will use daverob dongle.

    All mod can be undone, and I will see after I moved, and If I become a pachinko addict, I will probably buy a dongle here and there

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