token cleaning

[websherpa]

Will this stuff work in either a vibratory or rock tumbler unit? It's bird litter, and it says it's made from crushed walnut shells.

http://www.esuweb.com/products/854Birdlife_Avian_Care_Products_Bird_Litter_BIRD_LITTER_50_L B._(CRUSHED_WALNUT_SHELL).htm

I'm pretty certain that I read elsewhere on the net when reading up on this that people use the crushed walnut that is found in the pet stores with Flitz Tumbling Media additive for faster, better results. I posted a link somewhere on the forum from a Pinball parts sales place that sells the vibratory tumblers, media and additives for cleaning rusty parts, and pinballs. I think this was it: http://www.pinrestore.com/Tumblers.html

Also good for rusty balls, and tarnished tokens. I haven't tried it myself as the tumbler is harder to source in Canada .

[bf_of_pf]

I went back and looked at mine, the ganuals are about 1/8 dia. which every is closeist would be best.

Thanks. We'll see tomorrow which size is closest to 1/8". Do you use ever add in any Flitz? That was something recommended for the vibratory cleaner; was wondering if it's ever used with a rock tumbler.

[bf_of_pf]

I'm pretty certain that I read elsewhere on the net when reading up on this that people use the crushed walnut that is found in the pet stores with Flitz Tumbling Media additive for faster, better results. I posted a link somewhere on the forum from a Pinball parts sales place that sells the vibratory tumblers, media and additives for cleaning rusty parts, and pinballs. I think this was it: http://www.pinrestore.com/Tumblers.html

Also good for rusty balls, and tarnished tokens. I haven't tried it myself as the tumbler is harder to source in Canada .

You were too fast, websherpa. LOL. I was thinking specifically about your post in the question I just asked Arby about Flitz. I went to the site you posted the link for and spoke with them on the phone. At the time, the amount of tokens that machine will clean was too few. But since I discovered CLR, and CLR worked on most of our tokens, we'll purchase either a rock tumbler or a vibratory cleaner from Harbor Freight to now deal with however many DGI copper-colored/now cruddy tokens we have. Paula just found a 5 lb vibratory cleaner like the one you showed in your link, but at Harbor Freight, for $39.99. AND she found a 20% off coupon for Harbor Freight. So we might just end up getting that Chicago Electric vibratory cleaner/tumbler instead of the rock tumbler, (then we'd use the pet store bedding made from crushed walnuts and some Flitz) although I think in the long run the rock tumbler would probably hold more tokens per cleaning. (about 200 vs 100). Maybe we'll just get both and see which one does a better job. I'll post as soon as we know something; it's our plan to get both the double drum rock tumbler, and the vibratory 5 lb cleaner from Harbor Freight tomorrow. Then set them up tomorrow night, and by Friday we should know something and will post our results.

http://ww2.harborfreightusa.com/show...geid=214&email=

[websherpa]

Good price on the vibratory cleaner! don't happen to have any more of those coupons lying around do you?

The Flitz media additive is like Tarn-x, I believe, it's similar to what they coat other media for cleaning gun casings, it causes the tarnish to come off faster and stick to the media.

In my mind (and mind you that's a dark place), I was thinking the vibratory tumbler would be a better idea than a rock or barrel tumbler because the coins wouldn't be hitting each other with gravity as they tumble around, causing more scratching. At least I think that's the theory with casings (also that the media will go in the casings and vibrate in there as opposed to being thrown out each tumble). I was thinking the same theory would apply to polishing the fine stampings on tokens (again I haven't tested this yet - if I had a coupon I might! <snicker>)

[websherpa]

Good price on the vibratory cleaner! don't happen to have any more of those coupons lying around do you?

Sorry I see now the link is to the coupon, I assumed it was to the tumbler. Too bad it's walk-in only, but thems the breaks. THanks for posting this!

[bf_of_pf]

Since the prices are so good, it'll make an easy test set up. When I was reading about the rock tumblers, and saw that the recommended time (for actual rocks, not tokens) was 4 WEEKS, I thought: "Uh, I don't think so". And one site compared the rock tumblers to the vibratory cleaners and said it brought the cleaning time down considerably. But I think when it comes to tokens, the time seems to be basically overnight (8 hours +/-) for both. I think the vibratory cleaner should be a little quieter. Just having read the manual for the vibratory cleaner, it said that different media should be used with it rather than a rock tumbling cleaner. It said the store should have the proper media for each machine, so we'll check that out tomorrow and go from there. Thanks for all your help, websherpa, and to arby and slotter and everybody else.

[arbycoffee]

I use the 1/8 shell gritt in both the tumblers and my vibratory. they are quieter, but they would hold as much as my quart tumbler.

[fronzdan]

Here are some pics of tokens I've tumbled using Lyman corn cob media...

This type comes out really well. The token is very detailed and there aren't large flat areas that are supposed to be mirror polished. The left is an untumbled token from the same batch:
http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/token.jpg



These ones are pretty old and well worn. They shine up nicely. The picture doesn't really do it justice. Again on the left is a dirty untumbled one:
http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/Manten.jpg


Another before and after:
http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/manten2.jpg


This is just for comparison. It's one of the tokens that vgc sells. They are very shiny and clean if you've seen them. You can see that the lighting for these pics can be very harsh and make them look more scratched than they really are.
http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/vgc.jpg


This one was probably very polished when first minted. I'm sure much of the scratching happened while they were being used in the pachi parlors. When I look at some untouched ones, they are just as scratched, but it's less noticeable because the crud sort of masks it. But this is an example of one of the types that can pick up additional scratches while tumbling with this media. Before it was tumbled it looked pretty tarnished.
http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/Scratched.jpg


The next batch of dirty tokens I get, I'll try some "pre-polish" grit which is used for rock tumbling. I think this might be less abrasive. It might take more tumbling though. These ones I did dry with the corn cob media...ran them about 15 hours (hey it's a rotary tumbler!)

[Tulsa]

Please repost these as 640x480 as these are too large at 800 x 600

[fronzdan]

Fixed....sorry about that.

[bf_of_pf]

To Fronzdan:

I don't know about the Lyman corn cob media. And the booklet for the Chicago Tools (made in China, btw) vibratory tumbler listed crushed walnut shells & corn cob media similarly as far as cleaning properties. But in the pet store where I got one kind of crushed walnut shells (to use in the vibratory cleaner) I saw corn cob media and it looked a lot bigger/rougher than the crushed walnut shells. My first thought was that maybe that is why you were seeing scratches on the smooth surfaces of some of your tokens. However, I have no real basis or experience; it was just a thought.

[websherpa]

Please repost these as 640x480 as these are too large at 800 x 600

Tulsa, It's not an issue, but what was the reason behind the size restriction again? Thanks,

[Tulsa]

There's no again, it's always been set to that. I set the restriction for this reason.

Some people still use an 800 x 600 screen resolution and if you have a larger pic or even equal in size, it will cause them to have to scroll around not only for that post but each one that comes after it.

I know I hate to scroll from side to side to read a post and I'm sure they do to. So it's for them I set this restriction, even though I have no idea who they may be. 640 x 480 will also produce a nice enough size pic to get your idea across.

[fronzdan]

Hmm....here's pic of the Lyman's corncob. I've never seen crushed walnut, how does it compare in size to this? The black pile is used media...about three batches. The green stuff is new. You know, they say it's "treated". I'm guessing that's whatever the green is. Maybe it's some kind of extra abrasive?

http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/corncob.JPG

[luckydog]

My walnut shells are a little bigger than regular grind coffee.

A little tip

If you polish with ground coffee, don't make coffee with it afterwards

[websherpa]

You're right, about 20% of Internet users ("they") still use 800 x 600 resolution, likely older systems. A significant number, but dwindling as computers, video boards and monitors get cheaper. It's a pain but we still program a lot of our web sites to meet that resolution... even though my clients scream for bigger, better, more streaming media!

... a lot of old computers and monitors are refurbed and handed "down" to parents and grandparents....schools.... so the trend perpetuates a little longer than hoped for.

[scooby_doo_m2002]

Some people still use an 800 x 600 screen resolution and if you have a larger pic or even equal in size, it will cause them to have to scroll around not only for that post but each one that comes after it.

I know I hate to scroll from side to side to read a post and I'm sure they do to. So it's for them I set this restriction, even though I have no idea who they may be. 640 x 480 will also produce a nice enough size pic to get your idea across.

I now understand why the rule stands.... I am on the inlaws puter, Although I am not complaining, I am having to scroll side to side.. dunno if its the settings or the 15in monitor. But Its not mine so I am NOT gonna mess with it. I am used to a 19in.....

[bf_of_pf]

Hmm....here's pic of the Lyman's corncob. I've never seen crushed walnut, how does it compare in size to this? The black pile is used media...about three batches. The green stuff is new. You know, they say it's "treated". I'm guessing that's whatever the green is. Maybe it's some kind of extra abrasive?

http://home.comcast.net/~fronz/Tokens/corncob.JPG

It looks from the photo that the Lyman's corncob is nothing like the stuff I saw in the pet store. That was literally like corn that had been taken from a cob, or chopped up corn cobs. I'll try to get some photos tomorrow; I think that the stuff I got at the pet store might be a little finer than the Lyman's corn cob. But it looks close to the #12 crushed walnut shells from Harbor Freight. A 25 lb bag of #12 was on sale for $20. The stuff from the pet store was a 5 lb bag for around $5.50. I've got both the vibrating tumbler and the double 3 lb tumblers going now. I should see some results by tomorrow a.m., or p.m. at the latest.

[bf_of_pf]

Ok, folks....After extensive (8 hours) scientific testing , the results of the token cleaning contest are in: (See Below)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7...withno12cr.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2...ngtumblerw.jpg

The best way to describe the actual color/appearance of the tokens in the first photo would be "antique bronze"; for the second photo, "copper". There were 220 tokens in one of the two tumbler cylinders (the second one was empty; but could have held 220, making the approximate capacity of the dual tumbler device 450). I used the #12 crushed walnut media purchased at Harbor Freight, which normally sells for $25/25 lbs, but which was on sale for $20. I did not add any wet or dry polish to the mix.

I put 270 tokens into the vibratory tumbler and used about 3.5 lbs of crushed walnuts purchased at Petco (Kaytee All Natural Walnut Litter For Birds, 5 lbs) with no Flitz or any other liquid metal polish added.

The vibratory tumbler appeared to be more well made. It felt sturdy and it was easy to get the lid off, fill it, and run it. The dual cylinder rock tumbler felt cheap. It was difficult to get the tops of the cylinders off and on, and it had a very strong rubber smell, probably due to the fact that both cylinders are made out of rubber. They made different types of sounds, so it's hard to say which one was quieter. But from the photos above, there's no doubt as to which one was faster, although the dual cylinder rock tumbler could do about twice as many tokens per load. (Note: I used the Arby formula: 1/2 tokens, 1/4 media, 1/4 space.)

Result: We'll be returning the dual cylinder rock tumbler and either getting another vibrating tumbler from Harbor Freight, or else keeping an eye out for an ebay sale of a Lortone rock tumbler, either a dual cylinder, or a 12 pound single cylinder model.

As far as the media goes, we'll probably experiment using the #12 crushed walnut media in the vibratory tumbler to see if it makes a difference. I don't think it'd be worth it to use the Flitz polish as long as we can continue to get the results we got on this first run. These tokens were a mess, and the thought of having to keep using Tarn-X to make them presentable was not appealing. I will follow up with DGI as far as what I consider to be the defective nature of the minting of these copper-colored tokens, and will post the results as soon as I have them. For now, at least there's a workable alternative, although I have about 10,000 of the DGI tokens, so I better get moving and start cleaning.

[websherpa]

I think the Flitz just speeds up the process by metabolizing the oxidized tarnish so it comes off easier.