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Thread: Oak Cabinet Build

  1. #21
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    No problem.

    Today things are getting put together. I've got everything but the machine shelf, and the ball ramps in place. I am waiting for some wood glue to set up a little bit, and then the machine shelf will go in place yet today.

    One thing that I learned is that even though I have a 3/8" plug cutter, and a 3/8" countersink bit (which you would think the plug would fit the hole made by the bit), they don't fit. The plug ends up being too small. So instead, I took the 3/8" plug and put it into a bit gauge (see attached picture) to find that it was actually a couple of bit sizes smaller. I grabbed a regular drill bit of the matching size, and put it in the drill press. I set it up so that the hole depth would be the same for each hole. Glad again that I tested out on a scrap piece first.

    Pictures to come later today of the cabinet progress...
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    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

  2. #22
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    a countersink bit is for putting a taper at the top of your 3/8 so a screw will be below surface level.


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  4. #23
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Quote Originally Posted by birdbrain View Post
    a countersink bit is for putting a taper at the top of your 3/8 so a screw will be below surface level.
    Yeah, that is what I learned through this... I've always just used a drill bit in the past, but in my attempt to use the "right" tool for each job, I ended up with the "wrong" tool.

    All is good though, with the 21/64" bit, it is a perfectly snug fit for the 3/8" plugs...
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

  5. #24
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    And welcome to the end of day 6 of this project. Keeping in mind that some days I got very little done due to other responsibilities.

    Today was where I could actually see my patience and time take shape. The cabinet shell is assembled. ALl of the joints are glued and screwed, many were also clamped to help with the curing process (figured I bought a couple of clamps, I might as well use them)...

    Everything lined up nice and snug, just like I wanted it.
    There are some pictures below showing what is done so far.

    I do think that I have found a, gasp, design flaw possibly. I followed Ken's plans pretty much to the letter, minus a few adjustments for my big hands in the bottom tray, and making it so that the front of the top "hopper" was the only exposed piece of wood (his plans had it so that you could see the "top shelf", I didn't want that.

    Anyway, when I line up that Lumina frame nice and flush in the cabinet, if I hit a fever round, and the balls "overflow" into the bottom plastic tray of the Lumina frame, if I slide the slider over and let the balls drop, about 1/3 of them will miss the bottom tray.

    I am not sure how this was missed after so many builds from these plans. I even went back and remeasured to make sure that I didn't do something against the plans, and I was right on. So I will have to make some sort of mod down the road to guide those balls into the tray. Not sure what else I could do. Bummer...

    Here is what I have yet to do.
    1) Router the outside edges
    2) Cut the plugs, glue them in place, and sand them flush
    3) Cut the hole in the top hopper so balls can drop down to the Lumina's hopper
    4) Add the "drop tube" with some sort of "cut off" for between the two hoppers.
    5) Cut the matching hole in the top hopper's "ramp"
    6) Install the top hopper's ramp
    7) Install the bottom tray's ramp
    8) Add something to "guide" the balls from the Lumina frame down to the bottom tray for "spent" balls
    9) Add the hole for the power switch.
    10) Give the whole thing a good sanding and cleaning to remove any slight imperfections
    11) Stain the wood
    12) Apply a poly-coat for protection
    13) Install some sort of sound deadening material on the ramps (I am looking at neoprene covered in fabric)
    14) Mount the Lumina frame and secure in place with a couple of screws from the inside (so that they can be removed down the road if need be)
    15) Mount the power supply, and power strip (with wire extensions for the power switch)
    16) Put one of the cells back in and give it a shot!

    Whew... I am probably missing something, but that is the big stuff.

    Now for a couple of pictures...
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    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

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  7. #25
    The Barbarian johntofva's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Looking GOOD...
    Life
    It's what happens
    When you least expect it.

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  9. #26
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    While these are in fact great plans, you must take into consideration the infamous " ball ramp" a guide to direct the spheres to the waiting tray. made of wood or plastic they are an essential part of the design. I ,apparently alone, took a plastic Tupperware cup and bored the proper sized hole through the original case and the new frame to allow straight access from the output to the tray. the cup being the 'funnel shaped' guide,i also installed a series of thin foam "baffels" hot glued inside of the bottomless cup to slow down the vertical speed of the spheres, this proved to be acceptable.


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  11. #27
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Just a quick note. I took the day off from working on the cabinet and spent some time with my family. It seemed like the last week I was either at work, running people here or there, or working on the cabinet. I had no time to sit back and chill for a little bit, so I did that today.

    Tomorrow, the build will continue...
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

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  13. #28
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Alright, tonight we had a little bit of an unexpected trip to make, and a special occasion that kept me from starting on anything before 9:30 pm... (My 13 year old daughter auditioned a couple of weeks ago for a state-wide honor choir. Of the 20 kids that the school submitted for selection, she was 1 of 2 kids that made it... She was 1 of 2 kids last year as well, but last year there were 200 girls total from across the state, this year, they cut that in half to 100 kids. So she is 1 of the top 100 school-aged vocalists in the state. So I had to drive 45 minutes to the Iowa State University campus to get tickets for the concert now that we know that she is in... And we went out to eat to celebrate.)

    Anyway, back to what I managed to get done tonight.

    I got all of the plugs cut and installed (glued) making sure to cut from the same wood and line up the grain of the plug to the grain of the wood sides. Then when the glue dried, and sanded them smooth... Looks pretty nice. No picture though as I ran into a snag and need to figure this out...

    I had to put the sun-pack back on the Lumina frame to measure for the top hopper hole for the balls to drop down from the top of the cabinet into the Lumina ball hopper. I then slid everything in place, and OH, NO... The one side of the sun-pack sticks out far enough to prevent the cleat from being lined up. OK. No problem, it just hits in a small part of the one corner. I can just cut that out and still not hurt the integrity of the cleat.

    Then I got thinking, maybe I should test fit everything with my deepest cell in place. So I go grab the Julie cell (which is about 1/8"-1/4" deeper than Star Wars or Indiana Jones) and put it in the Lumina frame, and test fit. NOOOOOO! The hole upper back of the Julie cell presses against the upper back brace that is cut at the 45 degree angle to match up with the cleat... I could trim it up, but I would then have the cleat in the same situation, so I would have to make the cleat only 2" to 3" tall in order to fit. I don't know if I trust that little amount of wood.

    So now my Lumina frame will no longer be flush with the oak cabinet. It will have to stick out... you guessed it, about 1/8" from the frame of the cabinet. Ugh... It would definitely seem that these original plans were not designed for the Lumina frame (due to the inability of the bottom overflow hopper not being lined up functionally with the bottom of the cabinet so that when you slide the slider over to drop the balls into the bottom cabinet tray, about half will miss the cabinet tray completely. The plans definitely did not take into account the Julie cell, and I question how well it will still work with any cell.

    So if you want the bottom Lumina payout overflow tray to line up with the cabinet bottom tray, then you will need a LOT deeper cabinet to give room for the depth of the cells. Problem is that this is already a 12" nominal (11.25" actual) piece of wood. It would take at least a 14" nominal width piece of wood if not 15"!!! That is just insane! 1" x 12" x 48" (nominal) pieces of oak cost $22 each, and you need two. Not only did I not see anything wider than 12", I can't imagine the price.

    Looking back, had I known that this would be an issue, I would have gone with my second choice and done particle board with laminate. I would still have some design issues to figure out, but it would have been a lot cheaper to start over had I come to the realization with that method like I did tonight with the oak.

    It is just frustrating. Now my frame won't be flush and the balls won't drop from the bottom front overflow tray into the bottom cabinet tray without some sort of mod. Argh...

    OK. I am done venting now.

    So unless someone has a good idea on how to make this magically flush, I am going to have to take the bottom edges of the Lumina frame and some how dress them up so that they look a little nicer than just a piece of plywood with a piece of white laminate on the front face...
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

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  15. #29
    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    you could put shims in the back to bring the cabinet out more, then use 1/4 molding between the back side of the cabinet frame and wall.
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

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  17. #30
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    cut down the cleat and use it as the back of the upper tray as well that way it's still 5-6 inches tall and is above the cell. then make the wall bracket out of metal so it doesn't have to be large and interfere with the cell.
    or arch the cleat to clear the cell and mount 2 separate cleat on the wall.
    come to think of it, did you say you live in an apt? the neighbors will kill you no matter how quiet you make it, so it's a moot point !


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  19. #31
    Blind Shooter KennithX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    HA your gonna get kicked outa there if you hang that on the wall, the noise will go right on thru.
    KX
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    and the Japanese for their wonderful toys

  20. #32
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Just a couple of comments...
    Nope, I don't live in an apartment. If I did, then my neighbors would HATE my home theater. I've got a monster cylindrical subwoofer that is 39" tall! But anyway...

    Now that I have had some time to cool down from my frustration, I also told the "problem" to a guy at work. He too said to cut down the back part of the cabinet and use a metal cleat out of angle-iron or something...

    Of course getting that top piece cut down will be tricky since it is glued and screwed in place.

    Another idea was to use my router and carve out the area of the top back and the cleat where the back of the cell are at to make room for them. I just don't know how much room I have to get my router in there since it is all attached. The cleat would be easy, obviously, since it isn't attached to anything, but the back of the cabinet may prove a challenge. Then again, so would cutting away all of the material. OK, maybe not a challenge, but a bit of work.


    So what are the opinions here?
    Cut down the rear top part and use a metal cleat?
    or
    Route out some of the reat top and cleat to make room for the cell?
    or
    Something else?

    Again, I only need about 1/8" to 3/16" more clearance.
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

  21. #33
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    another option is angle iron down the inside on both sides and screw that to the joists.eliminating the cleats totally


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  23. #34
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Quote Originally Posted by birdbrain View Post
    another option is angle iron down the inside on both sides and screw that to the joists.eliminating the cleats totally

    Interesting idea. How would I secure it to the wall though? Isn't the idea of the cleat to allow for bolting right to wall studs? Wouldn't the angle iron at about 20.5" apart not line up with normal wall studs? I could use toggle bolts, but I would still fear that this much weight would be too much for the drywall...
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

  24. #35
    Hyah! rubberratt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Hmmmmmmm if you could get the cab to be "flush" against the wall... it would generate minimal torque. If you swing anything out of the frame, you will generate a LOT of torque. So you would probably have to take the machine down to work on it (change cells &c).

    I would think that lag bolts into the studs would be best, and you would still need to be careful if you will be swinging the whole frame out ><

    せぶん戦闘機 せぶん

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  26. #36
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    So even if I could mount a cleat directly into some studs, I couldn't be able to swap cells while on the wall? I realize that it adds a lot of strain to the mount like the physics of using a lever, the farther out you go, the greater force you will be applying to the fulcrum (cleat and mounting of that cleat) with very little effort (we all know that the machines are heavy).

    Another mounting idea taken from the metal cleat approach. To do that method (the method that is a bit more cutting than the routing out of some of the cleat and top back frame), it will become very difficult to get a 45 degree angle on to a piece of wood that I can't remove from the cabinet frame (due to glue & screw). What if I did a straight 90 degree cut (I know, I won't be able to get a tool perfectly in there, but either way I would need to cut it down) and then use some sort of 'U' shaped metal wall bracket. This would create a channel that the top back piece of wood on the cabinet could sit "in" instead of trying to make some sort of 45 degree cleat. I would have to account for the extra thickness of the metal to get it flush (or use some sort of extra trim like luckydog mentioned).

    I am thinking that no matter what I do, I should try to find some way to maybe have 2 cleats. One for the top, and one towards the bottom.

    Other ideas or additional thoughts???
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

  27. #37
    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    I don't know where the thread is, but, another member added a cabinet below from the floor to the bottom of the cabinet.

    this supported a lot of the weight and took pressure off the wall mount.
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

  28. #38
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    I believe that this is the thread and design that you are talking about:
    http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20609

    Personally, I don't like the design. Not that it is a bad design, just not for me. Plus I would be adding a lot of cost, and trying to merge two designs. And I wouldn't be able to pull up a bar stool and play without bashing my knees.
    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

  29. #39
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    if you mounted the left angle iron to the stud, it would be holding all the weight while the door was open.or something along this line but cheaper( scroll to the bottom:
    http://www.benchmarkcatalog.com/main-hardware.htm
    another option is to pre-drill holes in the upper ball and the lower ball box and run lag bolts directly into the studs at the top and bottom.as rubberrat said. these would be out of sight and strong as all getout. be sure to use a good sized washer.
    of course you could just open that wall cabinet above your toaster (the one that is full of heavy dishes) and you will probably find only 2-4 drywall screws holding it up.


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  31. #40
    Sandwich Shooter nickbuol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oak Cabinet Build

    Quote Originally Posted by birdbrain View Post
    if you mounted the left angle iron to the stud, it would be holding all the weight while the door was open.or something along this line but cheaper( scroll to the bottom:
    http://www.benchmarkcatalog.com/main-hardware.htm
    another option is to pre-drill holes in the upper ball and the lower ball box and run lag bolts directly into the studs at the top and bottom.as rubberrat said. these would be out of sight and strong as all getout. be sure to use a good sized washer.
    of course you could just open that wall cabinet above your toaster (the one that is full of heavy dishes) and you will probably find only 2-4 drywall screws holding it up.
    Yup, I was checking out that aluminum cleat (like you linked and as shown below). I wonder if it is enough to hole a cabinet and machine. Maybe 2 sets of those? Of course, they aren't cheap either. I may end up out of luck on this whole thing and have to bolt it to the wall completely like you said as well. I really liked the idea of being able to take the cabinet off of the wall, but in actuallity, I don't know how many times I would actually need to do that.

    Funny comment about the kitched cabinets. You are right that they are most likely held up with a few screws. Good point!
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    - Nick
    If you aren't having fun, then you aren't doing it right!

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