Building a counter

[lukewells]

Hello Pachipeeps

I'm new here and I am a big collector of video games and pinballs. (39 machines)

I recently got my first pachinko, which was great fun for an hour, now I am bored.

I am a game player so I need objectives.

I want to build a counter that has various gameplay modes such as see how many balls you can win in 5mins, how many balls you can win from shooting 100 balls etc)

I'm good with hardware and software, but I have little knowledge of pachinkos and how they work so thats where you guys could help me out please.

1) I need to count balls shot

2) I need to count balls won

3) I need to switch on / off the ball firing mechanism at start and end of game


Now 1 & 2 is where i need the help.

3 I have some ideas of my own. For example
- relay to cut off card reader ready signal in dongle is one way
- relay to activate the "stop firing" switch on the ball firing handle
- relay to cut power to ball firing computer bit (though that one might generate an error code?)


I have seen the pachicounter and it looks like a cool bit of kit, but I want to build my own as it doesnt do exactly what i want it to do.

I notice the pachicounter uses optical sensors of some sort?

I personally would rather hook into some signals somewhere in the machine then add sensors.

Is there a switch or sensor that detects a ball fired? Is there a signal between the cpu board and the ball firing board that pulses it to fire? Any other ideas where i can grab a signal?

Is there a signal I can grab on the payout mech? I took it apart today and found that there are 2 ball paths through it and on each ball path there is a small black sensor of some sort with a square hole that the ball passes through. anyone know how to interface with these?

Failing any suggestions for the above where can I get some sensors like the pachicounter ones?

Thanks in advance for any help

[H20Dreams]

I load ball. I shoot ball. They bouce around and sometimes land in a pocket thing. Pretty music. Sorry I am no help.

[lukewells]

lol, unfortunatly that novelty wore off way too quickly for me, I need objectives like times games etc to keep it interesting (or maybe my pachinko is just too boring lol)

[Chris]

lol, unfortunatly that novelty wore off way too quickly for me, I need objectives like times games etc to keep it interesting (or maybe my pachinko is just too boring lol)

Sounds like it is not going to be your thing

[new in town]

Hello Pachipeeps

I'm new here and I am a big collector of video games and pinballs. (39 machines)

I recently got my first pachinko, which was great fun for an hour, now I am bored.

What Pachinko machine do you have?

[daverob]

Most pachinkos have 'battle counter' outputs on the back of them, these are either 36v outputs to drive relays, or are isolated outputs in the form of relay contacts or opto-isolators. It's obviously important to determine which ones you've got before making a connection to them

If you want to count balls won, then the one you're looking for is 'Prize Ball' which should be marked with these kanji characters '賞球'. Usually it gives one closed contact or voltage pulse for every 10 balls won.

I wrote a FAQ about the battle counter outputs a while ago, it's not comprehensive but I reckon you'll be able to work out what's what

Draft FAQ (for comments) - Battle Counter Output Terminals.


There are no sensors in the machine to count balls shot, the handle just controls the shooter mechanism directly, there's no feedback to the game CPU. So you're probably going to have to add your own sensors for this.

You could use a card reader emulator dongle to control how much credit you start with (and so control how many balls you have to play), but this doesn't take into account the balls you win, so will only count the balls 'purchased' and not the balls played, so might not be quite what you're looking for.

As far as a timer goes, it's relatively easy to wire up something to the dongle connector to enable or disable the shooter mech. All the regular dongle does is supply a +18v voltage to drive an opto isolator LED on the payout control board, It's as simple as switching this voltage on or off to enable or disable the shooter mech.

The pinouts of the card reader interface connetor are in this thread...

Pachinko Interface connections

The connections you'll need are VL (+18v) and LG (0v). If you need power for your circuit you can pick up the 24vAC supply from pins 1 and 25, it's fused at 1A inside the machine.

If the VL voltage is not present, then it will usually generate an error code, but on most machines this doesn't matter. A few machines will indicate the error to the player (either on the LCD or audibly), but most just light an LED on the payout control board and that's it. You can check if this is a problem on your machine by simply unplugging the dongle.

If you've got any other questions about connecting stuff to a pachinko, then ask away, as whatever it might be I've probably had a go at it in the past year or so.

BTW, welcome to PachiTalk Luke, nice to see another of the old ukvaccers round here.

[Tulsa]

Check out www.gaktrading.com

There is a link in our vendor section of his complete website. You will find there, a modification that Gaku has made that may just be what you're looking for.

[lukewells]

Thanks for your info so far guys.

Hello Daverob, sorry can't think who you are off the top of my head, have we met up ever? Who else is on here that I might know from the vac days? Wow has it really been 8 years already? Its such a big shame that a small group of people (mentioning no names) killed off ukvac, though at least Jamma+ is going strong and there are a good group of people still that want to meet up for beer, games and tech talk.

Looks like you really know your pachinko electronics then, some excellent info above.

I would be happy enough to be able to count every 10 balls paid (which sound very simple to interface) I think I have relays in there as the machine clicks from the battle counter panel every now and then while playing.

I have a Metal Shock by Takao and it has loads of battle counter terminals (I think there were 8 speaker spring type and 2x 2pin mini molex type)

Also there is a board in the back of the machine to the left of the cpu board, that has a lead directly from the cpu board to it, and then it has nothing but 8 sets of coloured 2pin mini molex type connectors, no idea what this is for but there are no leads plugged into the outputs (or are they inputs?) so maybe there could be some useful signals here?

Obviously I will have to take some photos to upload.

So starting and stopping the ball shooter and reading the 10x ball payout sounds simple enough, now i've got to sort out the "balls shot" signal.

I'm not so sure that there isnt any sensor in there as there is a black box to the right hand side of the shooter servo which has a sticker on it that says "SENSOR" which is connected to the servo. Either thats a bad Japanese to English translation of "potato factory" or it is a sensor of some sort but it could be something completly different, what do I know about these new fangled ball shooting machines

Can I buy those opto's that the pachicounter uses anywhere? are they good?

Whats the deal with the 2 sensors on the payout routes? surely they can count payouts to the exact ball? again i will have to supply photos.

Well this is all exciting and new to me. Pachinkos are fancy bits of hardware.

Chrish, your right, pachinko may not my thing.

I bought my first one because it will look cool on the games room wall, and as I have never had one I need one to take apart and see how it all works! I dont think I could get into collecting these things...

However, I like electronics and I write software so there is no reason why I can't make it my thing. If I can make my custom counter / game controller then it will add a whole new dimension for me (and maybe generate more interest for other people who have previously looked at pachinko and not seen the point) after all its not a game, its a gambling device (well a very fancy one!) and its like playing a fruit machine that you have a key for, there is no objective. Give the game some objectives and a highscore table and that adds ten fold more fun for me

To be honest I would probably be much happier anyway if I had a Julie (I love the pinball theme) or a Star Wars (who doesnt like star wars... plus the wall space i have for it is next to my star wars pinball)

anyway... lets get this ball rolling...

Thanks for the help so far guys

[birdbrain]

balls,,,,,balls they rattle down, we send them back up again...a never ending cycle of life. mesmerizing actually!

[01PyTypeR#1140]

:speechles :footinmou I'll leave this one alone!

[daverob]

Hello Daverob, sorry can't think who you are off the top of my head, have we met up ever? Who else is on here that I might know from the vac days?

I might have bumped into you at a meet sometime, but I don't think we were ever formally introduced! I'm Dave Roberts, and I operated a few old vids in an arcade in Brighton, but now concentrate on Pinball. I just saw your name and recognised it from the vac lists. I think you're the first vaccer that I've recognised here, but there might be a few others lurking in the shadows. There's a good few of us from UKPinball here, probably due to Nik from Just Pachinkos' efforts in trying to sell one to everyone that turned up at the Birmingham shows .

I have a Metal Shock by Takao ...

Also there is a board in the back of the machine to the left of the cpu board, that has a lead directly from the cpu board to it, and then it has nothing but 8 sets of coloured 2pin mini molex type connectors ...

I'm not so sure that there isnt any sensor in there as there is a black box to the right hand side of the shooter servo which has a sticker on it that says "SENSOR" which is connected to the servo.

Pictures will be useful, as I don't recognise the name, so don't know what style frame the game is in. The 8 connectors are probably the cell external output terminals, with the speaker type connectors being the frame outputs. The sensor I'm not sure about, I don't recall ever coming across anything like this.

Whats the deal with the 2 sensors on the payout routes? surely they can count payouts to the exact ball? again i will have to supply photos.

If they are the ones above the payout unit, then they are used to make sure that there is enough balls to make a payout. This isn't that important for the game itself, as it will keep a count of balls owed and will catch up later. But when the machine is in a parlour and connected to a prepaid card unit it needs to make sure that there are at least 25 balls available before it accepts a request from the card unit to dispense balls, as there's no way of signalling back to the card unit that the payout is incomplete.

I bought my first one because it will look cool on the games room wall, ... I dont think I could get into collecting these things...

There are many a story of dispair told on the pachi talk forums that start out just like this. My one is similar, I thought one would look good in the games room, then I saw a Star Wars on eBay for a good price and thought I might as well get one, then a Lord of the Rings as it would look good next to the pinball... I now have nearly 20 of them!

I'd agree that some machines dont seem to be able to keep my interest for long when I'm just playing with a limitless supply of balls and I don't know how many I've won, others I can play any time and I'm always entertained, I guess it really depends on how you feel about the theme of the game.

I keep it interesting by playing in a parlour style, I start off with a card with a certain amount of credit on it, and that's all I have for the session, I then weigh in the balls I have left on some scales at the end of the session to see how much I've won (or lost!). The high score table is kept in my head, but I'm planning on adding some genuine parlour battle counters into the mix quite soon, and maybe figure a way of getting the statistics uploaded to a PC...

[lukewells]

Here are some pics (batch 1)

[lukewells]

Here are some more pics (batch 2)

[lukewells]

As you will see the payout sensors that I mention are on the exit of the payout mech so they are counting balls leaving the payout mech.

I did something stupid ... while taking photos, I thought "ooh I need to take the payout mech out to get a closeup photo" completly ignoring the fact that when you pull out the payout mech the entire contents of the (full) hopper emptied out very quickly all over the floor, under the cooker and the fridge lol


I welcome your comments on the photos and any useful info you can tell me

Thanks for your help

Luke

[Chris]

We have all been there with the balls thing, you won't do that again - you will be finding them for weeks to come, they get everywhere.

[drcrippen324]

the 2 sensors on the payout are because there are 2 tubes in the payout hence both have to be measured for the machine to get the right reading

[daverob]

Ok reading from the picture of the sticker describing the terminals on the fuse board...

1 - Loan ball
2 - Prize ball
3 - 'Replenishment' Fuse (could be for payout motor?)
4 - Ball shooter unit fuse
5 - External outputs fuse
6 - Frame decoration lamps
7 - Prize ball and out of balls lamps

The sticker next to the green speaker terminals reads 'shooter handle control',
the red one is the 'door open' output, white one is 'out of balls', and can't really make out the blue one from the photo, but from what I can see it looks like 図柄確定回数 which is the 'design decision signal' (usually pulses during a reel spin or maybe a reach), but that's also present on the cell outputs so it might be something different.

The cell terminals are a bit easier...

Green - Big Bonus / Fever 2
Yellow - Big Bonus / Fever 1
White - Pulses when the claws protecting the secondary start pocket open
Orange - Design decision (again!)
Red - Start Pocket

The notes below say that the cell outputs are pin 1 is the +12v common terminal, and pin 2 is switched to ground when the signal is active. They are low current outputs so should only drive a logic input or opto isolator LED (should also be OK for a small relay I expect).

The box marked sensor looks like the control electronics for the shooter handle and launcher motor. Apart from the handle and motor itself it looks like the only other connections are to the power supply, and to the handle control output (on the speaker terminal board), which I would expect to be a steady state output when the handle is turned and balls are being shot (ie it won't pulse for each ball shot).

Hope this helps and clears up what some of the Japanese writing on the back of the machine actually means.

[lukewells]

Thankyou Dave, thats some very helpful information!

Right... fuse board terminals..

Any idea what the loan ball and prize ball terminals do? (1 and 2)

The fuses are self explanitory

6) Frame decoration lamps lights up super bright leds at the top of the frame during a feever and lights to the top of the left hand side for a reach

7) prize ball and out of ball lamps... yes thats right they go to the top left of the frame where those lamps are located.


The speaker terminals, I assume that the 4 sets are relay outputs as there are 4 relays on the fuseboard

What does shooter handle control do? (green terminals)

I will take a better photo of the blue one for you to look at.

The out of balls terminal will be useful. I could connect this to a driver transistor to fire a solenoid on a tank of balls above the machine to refill the hopper when it runs out

So the cell terminals, they are outputs that activate when a ball enters the various pockets or trap door, so I could actually use these for my ball "payout" counter, and then it wouldnt even matter if the hopper ran out as I could still keep score without it paying out.

so as ther is no easy way of getting the number of balls shot, I think I will have to try and get one of those optos that the pachicounter uses. (can I buy one anywhere ? or would GAK like to sell me one please )

This does suprise me as I would have thought that when pachinkos are in a parlour it would make sense to have them conneted up to a central computer (though the card reader terminals or something) so that they can keep track of balls in/out and work out if a machine is paying out too much/too little and adjust the pins as neccessary???

Thanks again for your help

[daverob]

Any idea what the loan ball and prize ball terminals do? (1 and 2)

The loan ball output will give one pulse for every 25 balls that are dispensed when the 'ball loan' button on the upper front tray of the machine is pressed. The machine needs to be connected to a card reader unit for this to function. But it's the way the player buys the balls to play with in the parlour.

The prize ball output gives one pulse for every 10 balls that are won by the player for getting balls into the playfield pockets.

What does shooter handle control do? (green terminals)

Usually the output will activate when the shooter handle is turned enough for the ball shooter hammer to start working, and will deactivate when the handle is released.

This does suprise me as I would have thought that when pachinkos are in a parlour it would make sense to have them conneted up to a central computer (though the card reader terminals or something) so that they can keep track of balls in/out and work out if a machine is paying out too much/too little and adjust the pins as neccessary???

In the parlour they can do this using the loan ball output, as this will tell them how many balls have been purchased to use in this machine. OK this is not going to be 100% accurate as it only tells them the balls dispensed using the card unit buttons on the top tray. The players could fill the front tray with balls won from another machine, but this would usually be an insignificant number compared to the purchased balls.

You can also get a good idea of the number of balls shot, as the shooter hammer fires at a constant rate. So if you time how long the shooter handle output is active, then you know how many balls should have been shot. Only problem with this method is it will keep counting when the balls have run out, but should be a reasonably accurate indication on a cyclic machine.

[musky]

I am using Gaku's PachiCounter on my Sammy Freddy vs Jason. I made the game cyclic which means there are no balls paid out. I modified the Payout motor assembly to think balls are going through it and set up the payout sensor to count the same notches that the game actually uses for the same purpose. The setup works like a champ and counts every "ball" won at about 99.9% Extra sensors are available from Gaku if you need them.






http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20333