Eliminating Hopper

[arbycoffee]

I was always told not to play with my money, but only the girls

[jc1444]

I was always told not to play with my money, but only the girls

It sounds like very good advice to me

[autoslot]

I'm in agreement, I don't think the machine would be as fun to play without tokens and a hopper, but this option is desired for certain states and countries.

I have been spending some time on this and it has proved more difficult than I originally thought. I've started with King Camel, and the hopper has two separate optical sensors that must be activated in a certain sequence and timing. I finally got the circuit working for that machine. Next step is to try another manufacturer to see if the timing will be the same, or if a different program and unit will be required for different machines.

[arbycoffee]

good luck!

[MaxW]

OK, here I go again.

My last message was banned by Tulsa for beeing to commercial, sorry for that, it wasn´t my intension.
Also I´m not yet wellknown in this forum, which are fair enough explanations, so I´ll have to work on that.

Now I´m asking thoose who are interested in finding out more about "my" coinless solution (see previous posts) to contact me with a private message instead and then I can contact each and everyone.

Max

[pandaweaver]

Has anyone thought of using a picaxe chip? This would be pretty easy to do, you just need a 6v chip to power the damn thing. You could even hook it up to a display to show how many would have exited the thing.

A small amount of Basic programming could easily fool the system into thinking that a coin has passed the sensor ( IE two consectutive high or low outputs). This could be easily repeated 50 times in just one press of the button to make the machine think that it is full.

Then, when you press the cashout button, or it "ejects some coins" using the hopper, when the system sends the pulse to dispense a coin, the chip would recieve thsi and just like the sensor that tells it that it has been dispensed, it would send back a pulse.

On a Picaxe 40IC you could easily drive a few 8 Segment Displays, one for input and the other for output.

Has no-one thought of this method before? I have experience in making BASIC programmes.

[arbycoffee]

Very Nice idea!!

[pandaweaver]

Thanks.

This would be very cheap to do, because instead of paying for a PCB to be manufactured, you would only need to use some veroboard or similar, for this to work.

It could also be reprogrammed which is a good idea, because all you need is a stereo jack connector. I think that this would be a much cheaper way of making a sort of counter for the machine.

I am going to get the multimeter out later, to see how viable this is. But I think for the price of the chip and a few resistors, this could be an easily made modifcation to any machine.

It could also have further benefits, because you could programme in autostops or the like, and just like on many other models, you could use the input from the buttons to change the timings of these, so it would not look any different on the outside.

Is there anyone else interested in this idea?

Thanks

[arbycoffee]

Yes I do

[daverob]

The PICAXE is just a regular PIC chip with a basic interpreter residing in it. If you can cope with programming in assembly or C, then you'd be better off with the regular chips, as the BASIC interpreter on the PICAXE (or the Basic Stamps etc) mean that you don't have much memory left over for your own programming and you soon run out of space if you want to start doing something clever with it. Besides I don't find BASIC to be a really elegant language to use when communicating with hardware.

The regular PIC chips are less than half the price and have identical connectivity. (ie you'd still need to design the interface circuitry to go between the hopper drives/coin mech connections and the chip).

It shouldn't be too complicated, I've done a similar project in the past (monitoring coin mechs and hoppers) with a regular PIC chip, but I don't have any pachislos to see if the same code would work here (and even if it did work, I couldn't re-use it as the code now belongs to the customer!).

[pandaweaver]

Ah yes, I did think along these lines too, but I suppose if other people are going to use this idea then it would be easier for them to use Basic rather than C or assembly, as in my view BASIC is easier to understand.

I still have yet to see what kind of voltage these coin sensors work off too.

Like I said it was just an idea, but don't forget that PICAXE sell those prototype boards already made up, so if I published the code here, it would be easy for people to go out and do this if they wanted to emulate my ideas, because many of the boards have the terminal blocks already on them, making it easy for people to solder on additional wires to the machine.

I doubt that this is going to require too much code either, but you're right in thinking that if it needed further additions then this may be a better idea, because there wouldn't be so much space clogged up on the chip.

But when I get this all working I hope that it is useful for those that are not allowed these machines in their state. Laws like that are far too lax in the UK, but i'm not complaining!

Price isn't too much of a worry as well, because the chips are "as cheap as chips!" (Pun intended).I agree that BASIC may not be the most elegant programming langauge, but hell it works!

The programming will not be difficult, and I am looking forward to doing it, although my exams are approaching soon and hence i may need to do them first, but definately afterwards.

Are there any other ideas that people think that could be programmed in, eg. hopper dump into the coin tray or machine reset without the key (and these could be executed by holding a button or something eg 1bet).

[pandaweaver]

Well, I've just bought a picaxe chip set 28X to see how viable this is.
I will let you know how I get on and perhaps post a tutorial if it get it all to work.
However, do not expect anything until at least the end of june as I have my end of year exams coming up really soon!

[teqkng]

Taking this post back to its roots... You CAN make these units legal in all 48 by any definition. it is simple...

Use the "Piggy Bank" rule. Disable the payout shoot and make it an internal loop to the Overflow bin. Requiring a key to access. This mod negates ANY definition of a gambling device. And keeps all playability for the unit. Without a physical Payout the units become a pure skill machine.

If done with INTEGRITY this modification should be legal in all 48 states please let me know if there are any dissentions to this claim, I will research individual states.

Martin

[pandaweaver]

Ah yes,
But where's the fun in doing that.
A simple echo would work from the signal, but you would not know how many you had won in reality.

The machine already is a skill machine, hence why you stop the reels.
I don't see what the fuss is in America, in the UK you can have actual fruit/gambling machine with both accept and pay out currency, as long as it is for home use it is perfectly legal.

I am still awaiting delviery of the chip before I can start work.

When you are still having to put tokens in, surely THAT is more suspicious of gambling as to where there is no tokens at all a TRUE tokenless machine!

This elminates all costs of tokens too!

[teqkng]

Actually this solution requires that a production facility be set up and the actual units coming from japan be listed as "Parts" not used electronics. so there are a couple of if not Grey area at least Greyish. It also treads pretty heavily into the taboo conversion area with the "Piggy Bank" reference.

[pandaweaver]

That is putting it back more to what the thread was about ELIMINATING THE HOPPER.
______________________________________________________
So what are you trying to say it seems that you have just contradicted yourself. You said it could be a piggy bank and then now that lands in a grey area.

A picaxe chip costs in the UK £2.50 so im guessing at around $2 to £1 it would cost $5. a few resistors and wires and that is a pretty cheap solution.

Obviosuly 7 seg displays cost more, but not drastically.
What point are you trying to make? :S