Star Wars Pachinko - Wont start first time?

[azlew]

Next time Star Wars is cold, I will try and start it with the other power supply - then I should be able to see whether that is the problem.
Mark

I'll wager 100 of the pachitalk.com dollars,points or whatever they are called here that we use in the "bookie area" that it is afterall the cheap power supply that is causing the problem( as I have said before). I could use the extra 100 points to use to bet on the exciting SPIN LUCK contest!!

[hanabi]

But isn't mine from the same Supplier?

I have no problems at all......

Or did they switch Power Supplies at some point?

[daverob]

I'll wager 100 of the pachitalk.com dollars,points or whatever they are called here that we use in the "bookie area" that it is afterall the cheap power supply that is causing the problem( as I have said before). I could use the extra 100 points to use to bet on the exciting SPIN LUCK contest!!

I'd call that bet, and I'd be happy to take on all comers with it.

I originally thought it was a power supply problem, as my Star Wars was supplied with a 4 amp transformer (ie 100VA), and the sticker on the back of the game says it needs more than double that.

As I said before, I've tried it on a 2A (50VA), 4A (100VA), 5A (125VA) and a 12A(300VA) power supply setup, and the only one that didn't work was the 2A transformer (which amazingly does start it up, but the machine errors out during fever rounds).

The 12A power supply is easily good enough to run two machines from, and Star Wars still refuses to power up first time when cold when it's the only machine running from it.

I'm off to buy a can of freezer spray, so I can either try and solve this problem, or if not then I'll at least make R2D2 think that he's taken a trip back to Hoth.

[logicprobe]

I'm off to buy a can of freezer spray, so I can either try and solve this...

That, combined with a hair dryer for "just enough" heat, should get you close... IMHO.
Just be careful of the freezer spray on the plastics.

[daverob]

I've tried a few quick squirts of freezer spray on a few bits around the machine, and the big problem is that most of the plastic cases around the circuit boards are sealed with security screws. There's just enough room to spray through some of the ventilation holes, but it's difficult to get a very good aim.

The only place that seems to be 100% consistent with starting first time and blank screening with R2 dancing around for a few minutes is when freezing around the chip circled in the picture below.

I've tried freezing the equivalent chip on my LotR (where there aren't any security screws to complicate matters) and I got similar symptoms, ie powers up OK when warm, and blank screen with a few flashing blocks and lines when cold.

This chip is a flash rom in a surface mount package, but is mounted in a socket. After carefully removing the chip on my LotR and reseating it in the socket, the machine seems to be quite a bit more immune to the effects of the freezer spray (but will still play up if drenched in freezer!).

Roll on a bit of colder weather, when I can see if re-seating this chip solves the problem permanently.

[slothappy144]

Wow cryogenic pachi repair whats next? zero gravity? clever, clever indeed.:biggthump

[azlew]

I'd call that bet, and I'd be happy to take on all comers with it......

It is on then! The bet is that the better power supply will create an instant on for markjbevan's Star Wars! Now as soon as he gets the specs from da man with the purple hat arbycoffee as to what is the proper power supply to use and then installs it, and then trys it a few times = if it starts say what(?) 10 times straight from cold starts then you can pass 100 pachitalk bookie point dinero to me or vice versa .

Interesting isn't it how we don't hear of problems like this with da man with the purple hat arbycoffee's pristine pachinkos?

[arbycoffee]

I install a :

PowerVolt, Inc.

Here where I buy mine, Sorry no cheap shizt, I don't like Fire.

http://www.powervolt.com/slotmachine...ormers_sm.html

Pricing on the smt-6-24-rtc (RTC: Auto-resetable thermal cut-out)
These are designed to run 27/7.

1-10 units @ $26.95 ea
11-30 Units @ $24.95 ea
31-50 Units @ $24.25 ea
They each way 4.1 lbs ea For eg A box of 10 Transformers going regular ground ups @41 Lbs would be approx. $12.00

If you have any More questions please contact Tim Kearns
sales2@powervolt.com.

or Contact Milt, for he sells them also

[daverob]

Only downside is that, like myself, Mark is based in the UK and shipping a transformer in from the states isn't likely to be economical. There's also no information about RoHS compliance, so it may be illegal to import one into Europe.

Also, as there's virtually no technical info for those transformers on the powervolt site, it's going to be very difficult agreeing whether a locally sourced transformer is better, equal, or inferior to the ones Arby uses.

Besides I wouldn't want to put any pressure on Mark to have to strictly follow our ideas on how to go about fixing this fault. Given my views that a replacement transformer is unlikely to help him, I really wouldn't want him to have to go to the trouble and expense of importing a replacement transformer just to settle an insignificant bet between us.

To be honest the only reason I'm here on Pachitalk is to offer suggestions based on my own experiences, and hopefully in return to learn from the experiences of others. Based on that I hope that Mark can use some of those suggestions to find a solution that works for him.

BTW I'd still be happy to pay up on the bet, if his final solution is to use an uprated power supply, whether it's Arby's recommended one or not.

[arbycoffee]

Dishpan has a table that shows these newer machines need 6amp

It is a Formula that figures it

[dishpan]

I've been going by the VA ratings printed on the main circuit board in the back of the game. It does vary by machine depending upon amount of electronics on them. I have yet to see one less than 150VA but a lot of the modern ones are rated higher. Yet some of my older non-LCD machines are only powered by a quality 75VA (3 Amp) transformer, yet seem to be doing fine. I likely don't use my machines long or hard enough for any problems to appear. (Yet)

I had originally thought to use the transformer temperature as an indication of loading, but then realized that the quality and efficiency of the transformer itself would result in a wide temperature range, even on properly loaded transformers. A cheap inefficient transformer would run hotter as more of the coupled energy would be lost as heat.

For example: (Volt-Amps divided by Volts = Amps)
150VA / 24VAC = 6 Amps
200VA / 24VAC = 8 Amps

[daverob]

I'm aware of VA ratings (16 years spent in the electrical/electronics industry helps a little bit here). Sankyo machines to tend to be rated a little higher than the others. ie my Pretty Band (Heiwa) is only 120VA, but LotR with the same size LCD is 155VA. Largest I've seen is Neo Powerful at 200VA. I imagine the 20" Mizuho (ie Cutie Honey, Fireworks etc) will be higher though purely due to the size of the LCD backlight.

Star Wars is rated at 170VA, so strictly speaking a 6A transformer isn't adequate. But in practice it isn't a problem as far as loading is concerned, as the transformer will be rated at 150VA continuous load, and the machine will only peak to 170VA for very short periods, and most of the time will be comfortably below 150VA. The transformers continuous load capability is normally limited by thermal constraints, so a short peak will not have the time to increase the temperature that much and can safely be ignored.

However the transformer will need to be a good quality one with a decent (ie low) regulation figure. Regulation determines how much the output voltage will drop as the load on the transformer is increased and is mostly a function of the magnetic design of the transformer (ie type of core, and the magnetic coupling of the windings). This is where a cheap transformer is likely to cause problems, when a better quality transformer of the same VA rating will be OK.

I originally thought that the start-up surge, was the problem with Star Wars and the original transformers were not powerful enough to supply the extra power needed to start up the screen backlight and all of the electronics at the same time. The temperature issue seemed to confirm this idea, as electronics will always require more power at lower temperatures (discharge lighting especially so). But after purchasing a quantity of 300VA transformers (toroidal so probably the best regulation figure you can buy!), and still having start up problems, I've pretty much given up on the idea that it's a power supply issue.

[azlew]

Based on what you are saying daverob = I will probably be instructing the powers to be here to transfer 100 pachitalk points to you as you almost have me convinced that I am just lucky that my Star Wars pachinko has from day one started up immediately even when it has been turned off for a couple of weeks.

BTW I appreciate you helping here as I am one that wouldn't want to see any Star Wars pachinko not working properly.

[markjbevan]

Hi everyone, sorry I have not updated you sooner but Ive been out the last few evenings!

Unfortunately I have not got round to trying my altertanive transformer, but I did switch the machine on cold yesterday morning - and it started first time, which was good.

However, I tried again this morning, before I went to work, and it needed abour 2 minutes to get R2 into possition, then switching it off and on with a reset did the trick.

Not really conclusive I know, and from my limited electrical knowledge, I know that intermitent problems like these are usually the hardest to detect! Tomrrow I will switch the power supplies and see how I get on for the rest of the week.

The good thing is that today R2 moved backwards and forwards quite easily and within a couple of minutes, he was ready to do. However when I tried last weekend, he barely moved, and took at least 10 minutes to get into possition.

Still, I suppose it has started *eventually* every time, so its not all bad. I will let you know how I get on with the power suppler - and see whether I have to pay out on any bets ;o)

From this thread I know it seems this problem seems assocaited with Star Wars, but can anyone let me know if any other pachinko's have a similar problem? Whe funds allow, I might get another - and I would prefer to get a model where there are no known problems ;o)

Thanks again guys, speak soon,

Mark ;O)

[Mike]

He lost me on VA Ratings... I'm glad mine was ok as well, as there is absolutely no way I'd have got it going having read this thread!

[markjbevan]

Just a thought..... as Im reseting it each time I switch it on, does this mean Im unlikely to ever get to a fever round (as it will always think it is like "new). Hope that makes sense!
Cheers,

Mark

[Chris]

Just a thought..... as Im reseting it each time I switch it on, does this mean Im unlikely to ever get to a fever round (as it will always think it is like "new). Hope that makes sense!
Cheers,

Mark

Mark - I have the same issue as you with R2D2 taking a couple of minutes to settle & then have to switch off & then back on, but I still get plenty of fevers. So I wouldn't worry on that score.

[Lddrizzt]

Ok time to throw a monkey wrench into the whole discussion.
I have been reading this thread since the begining.
Is it me or am I reading correctly that all the start up problems are in England?
Could it be a 220v vs 110v thing?
Just a thought.

[drcrippen324]

well thrown lddrizzt you couldent have aimed that one better if you had tryed

you have a darn good point there

or is it just teh cold uk climate

[luckydog]

or the damp air??????????