How acurate/consistent are the ball shooters?

[dishpan]

I believe that the inaccuracies of the shooter are designed into the system. Every machine that I've played is the same way, with minor variations.

I think that Pachinko's are mechanical/electrical/electronic/digital marvels of engineering, with healthy dollops of artistic bent from the design and marketing departments. There is a lot to these machines to study and reflect upon. Not all of it is static, as much hands-on time is required to extract all the nuances designed into the machine.

Pachinko's being Japanese, are just like them. Very subtle, yet full of meaning, requiring a lifetime of patience.

[johntofva]

Well stated dishpan.....

[jweaver]

I must admit that the biggest surprise to me was that the 'shooter' was electric/automatic.

I actually expected a 'spring' much like a Pinball machine.. To me, this would make more sense, as you would get a 'feel' for the machine.. Of course, I have little experience in Pachinko and most people might disagree, but I find that the way that the shooter works makes me feel 'detatched' from the experience.

Jon

[azlew]

Jon this is an interesting message thread and thanks for posting your observation.

I think input from Rupan would be very interesting. We had a discussion once before along somewhat simular lines. It was about the stop button on the shooter that many or most pachinkos have that allows you to shoot just one ball at a time. Rupan could clear up for us .

[websherpa]

But there is a real reason for asking this. I am having a hard time understand why Pachinko is so attractive.. Not just amongst the members of this board, but as a pastime in Japan..

Jon

I meant to answer this from a past post, but after typing it all out the system or something crashed and I lost it. Here's a version again.

You have to understand Japanese culture and history to understand Pachinko (and watching a few old black and white post war movies doesn't hurt).

Japanese are a very honourable people, but like all people, they have a dishonourable side - they are/were just better at hiding it. It's part of the culture. It's the same with their laws. They are meticulous about setting up laws that appear to preserve honour and decency, but are skillfully laced with loopholes to allow dishonourable conduct to happen honourably. This is just my own interpretation of some historical references I have read, they aren't meant to be exhaustive or even definitive.

If you know anything about the Japanese centuries old fetish for pubic hair in erotic art, you will also know that laws instilled to curb the display of pubic hair (in an honourable effort to clamp down on pornography) also lead to the open exploitation of children (and the huge market in Anime and Manga porn) ... but that's way off topic.

It's the same with Pachinko. Laws meant to curb gambling, which is illegal in Japan, dictate that the amusement machines (which must not give monetary prizes) must include an element of skill in order not to be "gambling" stictly by chance machines. Hence the plungers and pins of pachinko, and the skill stops on pachislo. Wins must not be more than 15 credits at a time (or else gambling addiction will result). But the Pachi industry is controlled by the mob and a corrupt government and so loopholes exist, like being able to trade pachinko balls for plastic blocks which then get traded back in for money int he alley, and "Fever" wins of multiple games of 15 credit wins (their "honourable" version of a jackpot).

The history of Pachinko stems from a surplus of steel manufacturers and ball bearings after the first world war. After the war, an inventive Japanese took a version of English/French Bagatelle (a partly horizontal pinball game) and turned it upright (truley fitting with Japanese aesthetic and practical need for everything to be "compact". Thus a use for those ball bearings and a whole new gambling industry was born. Since the Japanese were in a literal depression after the war, many poorer people turned to the only "unofficially sanctioned" form of gambling from some respite for their poverty and daily drudgery. Pachinko has a bad reputation so some people view it with disdain. But dispite all the governments efforts to make it "reputable" and "honourable" it remains a very addictive past time responsible for the downfall and destitution of many in Japan.

http://www.amdy.net/p-museum/

or read this article with pictures: http://www.pingmag.jp/2006/04/06/pachinko-designs/

Now, more specifically, the first and majority of the history of Pachinko was dominated by mechanical machines that only later used electricity for maintenance lights and win lights. These used a flipper that hammered the balls one at a time on to the playing field with a flick of your thumb. You could vary the amount of the travel of the ball and the landing place by the amount of "flick". The cell faces were all nails (pins) and pockets, some with wings that were ingeniously "opened" when a ball entered a different "go" pocket. The skill involved was to be able to flip balls consistently into the specific pockets, since the actual wins were very small by comparison to today's "fever" win.

The vintage pachinko is the perfect harmony of "chance" and "skill" since the balls tend to fall randomly due to so many pins, however a ball's fall can be predicted within a certain range.

On top of this, there was a constant battle waged between the pachipuro (pachinko pro) and parlour's kugishi (pachinko pin/nail setter), who would judge the angle and openings of the pachinko's nails to get a better win, vs. tightening/loosening the machine up for worse/better wins.

The attraction of Pachinko is that like any gambling device it is hard to win, but when you do, you feel as though you've conquered the machine, or fate. Being a superstitious people (aren't we all), one may beleive that in addition to luck gaining money, luck at pachinko may be something you carry with you in other aspects of life.

And lastly there is the "Zen" of pachinko. Something about the sound of the balls falling onthe pins and the wins of balls scrambling out of the machine (the origin of the word "pachinko") is very attractive, and the random flight of the balls as they bounce from pin to pin is almost mezperizing and certain to while away hours of stress if you play it long enough.

What escapes me is the attraction for the pachinko with no balls. These are popular home units because they make no noise, but in my opinion are essentially handicapped video games. Don't even get me started on "cyclic" play.

But it takes all kinds to enjoy/hate/appreciate pachi. All I can say is to play the machine in its current state consistently until you get in a rhythm and have a few fever rounds (even better if you get 5000 balls and a ball lifter). Then you will begin to understand and believe in all that is Pachinko (and why, other than the very similar Penny Arcade games like Penny Falls (Coin Pushers), DIggers and similar amusements, that North American Slots pale in comparison). North America Pinball is a beast of a completely different ilk since it is mainly based on skill and not really a gambling device.

I hope this helps put some perspective on it. No offense meant to my honourable friends of Japanese decent (of which I count scores among my friends and upbringing in Vancouver, B.C.), and I stand to be corrected where others may have more direct cultural and practical knowledge.

[jweaver]

Even the 'stop button' gives the same results.. If I get the power at a given level and then release the balls one at a time, I still get the same 'inconsistency'

To stress, this isn't a problems.. Its just and observation..

Jon

[Lddrizzt]

I must admit that the biggest surprise to me was that the 'shooter' was electric/automatic.

I actually expected a 'spring' much like a Pinball machine.. To me, this would make more sense, as you would get a 'feel' for the machine.. Of course, I have little experience in Pachinko and most people might disagree, but I find that the way that the shooter works makes me feel 'detatched' from the experience.

Jon

Jon,
The only way you are gonna get a pachinko with a spring shooter is to get one of the older flipper type machines. This might meet your needs in being one with the machine.

[arbycoffee]

. . .Pachinko's are mechanical/electrical/electronic/digital marvels of engineering, with healthy dollops of artistic bent from the design and marketing departments . . .

That is a mouthful and not over stated at all.

it is like the whizz bang shake box of my childhood

[websherpa]

That is a mouthful it is like the whizz bang shake box of my childhood

Oh, and see I married mine.

[dattia]

............

Good for you!!!

[arbycoffee]

Though mine saved my change for later useage

[websherpa]

Though mine saved my change for later useage

Oh mine does that too! I have to beg to get some back to spend on pachis. I'm not complaining, without mine I wouldn't have a pension.

[arbycoffee]

Cool Beaners & Weinies

[vespacar]

If it was that easy to get the sweet spot on the shooter there would lots of happy players and lots of poor parlor owners. It's not just the shooter that counts though, depending on how the nails are bent, and that is the biggest factor that I find. Once I got the nails set so the machine will pay fairly often I found it way more enjoyable. Having said that though, it took me a while adjusting the nails to get my star wars where I like it.

Even from what you read on this thread, the appeal of pachinko and playing means different things to different people. How many people would go to vegas if they did'nt win (or at least have the feeling they might win) playing the slot machines. So once you take the appeal of gambling away from the machines you'll have to look for other things. For me it's the appeal of going through fever and trying to find out the different ways that I can get the machine to pay out. Star wars it would be shooting down the tie fighters and getting to shoot down darth vader etc. I love getting hints from other players who have already gotten to stages that you have not, so I can give it a try myself.

In the end it is a entertainment device, some like it and some don't, and that is what life is about, enjoy it and don't waste time on things you don't get!!

Cheers,
James

[luckydog]

here's my sweet spot on my We Sky. I can hit those 6 nails most of the time.

after that it's all up to the pachi gods I have adjusted the nails and get a lot of balls in the center pocket when hitting in that area.

I just had 4 fever rounds and 4 challenge rounds, I had to shut it off to take a break

[dishpan]

I actually expected a 'spring' much like a Pinball machine.. To me, this would make more sense, as you would get a 'feel' for the machine.. Of course, I have little experience in Pachinko and most people might disagree, but but i find the way that the shooter works makes me feel 'detatched' from the experience.

For me the opposite is true.

The modern automatic knob frees me up to query the subtleties of the modern game and to figure out the surprizes planted within the machine. It is still important to be conscious of the knob position and ball path, but my mind is free to wander. It is much like driving and steering a car. To an experienced driver, it all happens smoothly and automatically. You are free to sight-see while still being very aware of the road. A novice is too focused on the mechanics of staying on the road and out of someones trunk to fully appreciate the experience of driving.

I have an older Pachinko with a spring loaded lever which provides for great control over the ball path. But it's like golfing, it looks simple but requires practice, skill and concentration, to be concistent. However, it puts the focus onto the mechanical element of shooting the targets for prizes. This may be more like a N.A. pinball machine and when I'm in the mood for it, I love to play with it. The closest modern equivalent that I've found are the Taiyo/Maturi Apollo and Penguin games which John has describled. Once again, when in the mood, I love playing these games as well.

The modern pachinkos are gaming machines foremost. By necessity, sucessful ones are designed to keep your interest and entertain you while picking your pocket. Half of the mystery is to figure out what the machine does, when and why. How can the player improve their odds of winning. What events trigger other events. When should they "aim" for the bigger payout pockets so that they can win enough balls to play a little bit longer before they run out off balls and have to move on? When should they move on from the smaller payouts to go for the starter pocket and the big prize? What is the best strategy to "win".

While playing a modern pachinko, video Dejapachi, LED/LCD type, Arrepachi, Wing type, or some other hybrid machine, I am concious of "aiming" the balls but my focus is on other apects of the game. What is the video screen doing? What little clues or items of interest are appearing; and why; and when. What sounds am I hearing, and why? Some of the newest digital games have a wonderful sound track, with lots of subtle nuances layered below the main music. What are the symbols and individual lights trying to tell me? What is the best ball path for attacking a particular game? Why does the ball go where it does? Should I tweak a particular nail to make the play easier, or harder? Which way should it be bent? Sometimes a nail far away has a great bearing on how the balls behave at another location. My mind does this at the same time that it is listening to the pitter patter, clicking and clacking of the balls against the glass. Much like rain or hail on a house window, or roof. Or watching the coals glow in a camp fire. Studying a Japanese sand garden. Ants going about their business. Facinating stuff. You have to look for these within yourself. You can't get it out of a book or have someone teach it to you.

Because of the financial necessity to ensnare and trap a player, most machines are designed to show them something new every now and again to keep them coming back. I've played some of my machines for a long time, thinking that I know everything about it, and it then goes and shows me something new. Sometimes subtly, sometimes profoundly.

And here you thought Pachinko was another cheap pinball alternative. Who said this was just a simple game. Little did you know that you were embarking on a long road of exploration and appreciation. Growing from novice to apprentice, lay person, adept, master, Pachipuro, Kungushi, to who knows what.

I find simularities to the ancient game of GO. On one level it is a simple game with black and white stones. On another, it is vastly more complex than a game of Chess. Pachinkos are also simple to play but hard to master.

What works for me is variety. Pachinkos are like children, and dogs. Each one is precious and unique. I've got too many machines and not enough children. I can move freely from one pachinko to another whenever the mood strikes. This way I am constantly exploring each without getting bored with any particular one. Practicing cell swapping was the solution for me. A few main cases because of cost and room, and a whole lot of game cells that can be swapped within a couple of minutes.

I have one loving wife (no swapping here), but I have many mysterious Japanese mistresses. All of my games are female of course! They are lovely, charming, entertaining and comforting, but you'll never figure them out completely.

I hope that this rambling makes sense and that it helps. A lot of people never get past step one on the road to a life long commitment. Works for Pachi's and wives too.

[dattia]

I like reading your posts Dishpan

[dishpan]

Is that because my wife has taught me how to "say the right things", or because I've learned how to use the Red snipe Button?

[dattia]

Either way, it works for me

[slotter]

Enjoyed your thoughts there, DP! Thank you.