Machine Memory

[websherpa]

I've been playing Dekainka by GINZA for 4 nights now, a couple hours each night and still no big bonus fever win (so of course I'm hooked). But I was wondering if, when I turn the machine off (at the mains) whether it remembers the past plays. I ask because it seems like each time I play, it ramps up in intensity (i.e. more and more "close signs") starting from a lot of regular plays with no signs at first. Turning the machine off with it's internal power switch and at the mains seems to have the same start-up effect (i.e. the machine face features reset), though I haven't tried leaving the mains (power bar) on overnight. I'm loathe to leave the machine's transformer humming all night (pipe down Jeff <smile>) . Thanks for any insight you guys can provide.

[TeeDubya]

The machines don't have any recollection of what they just did, and they don't remember the last time they gave up a BB. On average, over time, the odds for a major win are something like 1 in 400. When you least expect it you'll hit for a fever. So just keep playing and you'll hit it sooner or later. Probably later.

[Bilko44]

I don't think the powering down of your game will affect the bonus fever rounds. The pachinko parlours do not run 24/7 and they turn off their games each night. If the games did indeed follow the same spin sequence each time the unit was turned on, then it would be a simple matter of counting the number of spins on the data meter and playing the game only when the number of plays reach the magic number of spins on the meter display above the game in the parlour.

Having said the above, I also understand that the pachinko games are also linked to in-house computers which can be programmed to alter the frequency that the bonus fever rounds will come up. When we play the game in our home, the hit frequency follows the game's original programming contained on the motherboard's game chips.

Game manufacturers tiptoe around the issue of parlours changing the odds via computer but will admit that certain models of their games will allow computer inferfacing, but they stop short of saying that odds can be changed......

[slothappy144]

The Neo PlanetT has an in depth menu that lists the pay/play ratio. when I got mine it was listing 1/387 so it hit 777 or bars after 387 plays, it then paid out 357 tokens
In actuallity I put in around 1000 before it paid out, the menu's are in Japanesse so I reset the display to zero before i figured out the buttons.
I unplug the machine when not in use and it remembers where we left off. and from the menu, is seems it keeps track of the pay per bonus payout

[websherpa]

<quote>

Our King Camel eats tokens and says "ha ha" until the hopper overflows, then my Mother-in-Law sits down and wins a laundry basket full of tokens. So just keep playing and you'll hit it sooner or later.

</quote> - sorry that was a clip from TeeDubya's original post but I don't see where it went to???

The Pachislos definitely have some kind of memory. My Hanabi keeps track of statistics though it is possible that the "odds" only affect a random generator. But in the case of Pachislos, if you turn it off in the middle of a bonus round (even from the mains) it will start up again right in the middle of the bonus (King Camel too), so it keeps track of that, at least.

I have read, about the Decainka that it proceeds through stages of play towards a win. Although I agree that the machines give early wins, delayed wins and even extended wins at unpredictable times, I am asking about the fact that it seems to ramp up predictably each time I turn it on (and I turn it off before a bonus is hit). I just wanted to check to make sure I wasn't imagining this behaviour (and the machine should be left on) some I'm not circumventing a Fever Round.

Many thanks for your insights.

[TeeDubya]

<QUOTE> </QUOTE>- sorry that was a clip from TeeDubya's original post but I don't see where it went to???

I posted that before I realized that you were talking about a pachinko. The original post was edited pretty quickly, but you nailed me anyway!

The machine's memory does remember if it was in a bonus/fever game when the power was cut. But that's completely different than a pachislo that keeps track of statistics. Statistics aren't dependent on odds, but odds are based on statistics.

Each pachinko ball that goes into the start gate has about a 1 in 400 chance of taking you to a fever round. Each spin is a separate event, independent of all preceding spins. You can't really calculate when a machine is "due to hit" based on how many spins you've had.

[websherpa]

IStatistics aren't dependent on odds, but odds are based on statistics.

Each pachinko ball that goes into the start gate has about a 1 in 400 chance of taking you to a fever round. Each spin is a separate event, independent of all preceding spins. You can't really calculate when a machine is "due to hit" based on how many spins you've had.

Ok, yes, now that was what I was getting at, it did occur to me that the statistics are just that, separate from the win. and so if each spin is independent, it doesn't matter if the machine is turned on or off (just that during a bonus or other tease sequence the machine remembers its place in the sequence).

But one still wonders if the computer in the Pachinko relates the chances of a win to the number of spins after last bonus as opposed to a separate set chance per spin. (I would hope the latter - theoretically you could win at any and every spin.)

And certainly (since most of the machines in a Japanese Parlour appear to have Battle Counters) why would anyone play a machine that just had a bonus?

It only occured to me that there was more to it because the period of winning on my Pachislos is fairly regular. If you win a few bonuses in a row, you go a long stretch then to the next one, or there is usually a pretty close relationship to the number of tokens played and the subsequent bonus (I can now almost tell when my Hanabi is going to pay off ... when I finish and my son starts playing!)

An interesting dissertion on how North American slots work suggests that you are right and I am just perceiving the machine to have an animated soul :

"Likewise, slot machines do not get "loosened" the more one plays them either. Because of the irregular sequences of numbers created by the RNG (Random Number Generator) - which are as equally random every time the reels are spinned - a player always has the same chances of winning every time they play. It is not that a machine is "ready to pay" at any particular time, more so than it is the luck and timing of spinning the reels at the exact millisecond the right random number sequence is generated."

ref: http://www.learntoplayslotmachines.com/odds.htm
makes for an interesting read.

[TeeDubya]

(I can now almost tell when my Hanabi is going to pay off ... when I finish and my son starts playing!)

Ditto, my Grandson (8) and my Mother-in-Law (82) do that to me all the time! My Grandson prefers pachinko ever since he sat in front of the Pink Panther and turned the shooter to the right. He said, "Poppy, this is WAY better than the slots!"

...and I am just perceiving the machine to have an animated soul.

Are you saying that the machines don't have a soul? Preposterous!!
I have read that dissertation on learntoplayslotmachines.com, and it was the clearest and most concise explanation that I'd ever seen. It kind of ruined the "soul" theory for me though. Ah well, sooner or later I was gonna find out.

Other than that, it's been a pleasure discussing the subject.

-TW

[arbycoffee]

The computer on board of a pachinko does keep track of the plays on the spin pocket for the percentage/odds.
What I also understand at different times the percentage/odds increase your chance to win when a reach is offered.
But what I don't know is the percentage/odds is based over the life of the machine or is it on a shorter span.

OK
Here is an idea That crossed my mind, what if the factory programs the computer on the machine to be very tight for the first three month after strart up. Than it will loosen up to match the percentage/odds that is printed about it. With this in mind, we get them when they pay off the best.
IMHO of my dreams

[Sid]

Interesting theory Arby.

it would certainly rake in more with the "NEW" factor..

[luckydog]

Is that why a second marriage is usually better than the first

[websherpa]

I'm still on my first, and it's pretty good, maybe you mean the first 3 years of a marriage??

I do know that officially, the "house" can plug the pachinkos into a computer that keeps track of all the statistics (been reading up on the Battle Counters and a member here's project: http://pachibattle.experienced.tv/

And "unofficially" those same computers can change the odds of the machines to suit the house/day instead of fiddling with the nails.

So can I assume then that the "ramping up" affect I have experienced, and as is advertised for the Dekainca, is an indication of better odds for reaching a reach?

So my question then comes back, does turning off the machine change that "reachabilty" or does the pachinko retain its current "status" like a pachislo does?

[arbycoffee]

So my question then comes back, does turning off the machine change that "reachabilty" or does the pachinko retain its current "status" like a pachislo does?

retain its current "status", I have been fevers and shut them off and came back days later and it is still there

[Tulsa]

Is that why a second marriage is usually better than the first

What? Don't you learn by your mistakes?

[arbycoffee]

[websherpa]

Rupan posted this in another thread

Data As Related to Spins

The manufacturers design their ROM's (either consciously or the opposite) to not be static but to have a sort of rhythm to them. In turn, ROM's are constantly reused within the same generation so you will have situations in which, for example, Star Wars, Star Blazers, and LoTR having the same exact ROM (though embellished) but Sea Story, New Sea Story, and Great Sea Story having completely different ROM's despite playing and looking very similar.

This idea brings us to the first play tip, which is the soft spin number tip. I will use the late '90s generation Sankyo machines (please note, this data may have changed) as an example since a lot of you own their machines. This tip uses the idea that, within a range of spins, it is easier (not guaranteed, mind you) to win a bonus. Sankyo's soft numbers fall in loose increments of 45's, meaning that spins at or around the number of 45, 90, 180, 270 are going to be softer, which may mean that you will see a higher odds chance signal or reach, a combination of both, or possibly even a premium (guaranteed win) pattern. Why do they do this? I'm not sure but I can reckon that it's that way to make the machines more friendly because at 1/400 odds, there is still a chance for a machine to go thousands of spins and not win even once (I've seen this before many times).

Conversely, there are also hard spin numbers, times when you should quit playing the machine. With Sankyo machines, the increments fall in the 111 increments starting at 222 then on to 333, 444, etc. Simply, at these particular spin numbers, if you haven't won anything then you might want to throw in the towel.

Now, you are probably thinking, "Wait a second, the interval between 222 (a hard number) and 270 (a soft number) is only 48 spins so would it be safe to just keep playing and hope for a win or give up?" Well, again, that's something you have to weigh - not only against each other but with other aspects of gameplay that I will talk about in later parts of this series.

http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9605